Freesound Forums

Hello All

Just testing the water here...
Answer the questions below, please.

Please let me know if you would be interested in a collaboration dare?

A collab takes much longer than a solo project. You will need to take joint decisions with someone else and you will need to exchange files back and forth to get your work to progress...
What would be the best and worst month of the year for that?

If I do one such dare I am considering perhaps having it run for ~6-7 weeks instead of the usual 3-4, precisely because a collab will take longer.

IF you are potentially interested in a collab, now would be a good time to tell us a bit about yourself and what software/hardware you use:
http://www.freesound.org/forum/dare-the-community/32171/
If you have already written something there... is it still up to date? Feel free to edit your post to keep it current with your software, equipment and intersts

I would love, love, love, love, LOVEEEEEEE a collab dare!
I use reason 5, and cubase (I rewire reason into it).
Time/month, to me at least, is not a big deal. I would like to do one any time of the year.
I do like the idea of keeping it open for a longer period of time. However, with that much time needed to run a collab dare, I just thought it may be a bit better to let the collab dare be its own category.
Here's what I mean.
We have a category "dare" (which are monthly dares).
Then we have continuum dare (which are perpetual).
And then we can have collab dares (which are once in two months). I think this way, when the file is in the other person's court, the original person can still continue working towards the regular monthly dare.
May not turn out too well, I don't know, but just thought I'd put it in there.
REALLY looking forward to a collab dare!

afleetingspeck wrote:
Here's what I mean.
We have a category "dare" (which are monthly dares).
Then we have continuum dare (which are perpetual).
And then we can have collab dares (which are once in two months). I think this way, when the file is in the other person's court, the original person can still continue working towards the regular monthly dare.
May not turn out too well, I don't know, but just thought I'd put it in there.
REALLY looking forward to a collab dare!

I concur!

This categorising is a great idea, since the dares are becoming more and more popular as time passes. So its wise to split them into a few different classifications.

I personally would enjoy collaborating on a project like this. The time of the year is irrelevant to me, as my schedule is pretty temperamental all year round.

I use Cubase 5, but its easy to export as Open Media Format (OMF) for use in many DAWs

I would work with you afleetingspeck, if you are game for that.

I would like to do a collab dare!
At the moment Im using Fl-studio 10, but Im willing to change my DAW.
Time of year doesnt matter, my work is more of demand and supply kind of business, so I never know before when I wil be busy.

Looking good for a collab dare, guys... keep the comments comming.

It would look like people would be willing to do a collab dare with a 6-7 weeks deadline in parallel with the normal dares...

We are going to build the momentum of the noraml dares here a bit before I venture into the collab dare. But it is certainly going to happen.
This is one I am planning to tweak according to YOUR comments and requests... so, as I said, keep them comming.

A bit off-topic, but still about dares:
If you think about it, we are in season 3 of the dares. The first one was a while ago, almost 6-7 years ago, I think. The second one was last year. And now the third one. We introduce a new concept in the third season: the collab dares! I think we need a wiki entry and a new blog post featured on the home page announcing this.
Just an idea.

I'd participate in a collaboratory dare - absolutely.

I use Ableton Live 8 as my DAW

I think the only way a collaborative project would work, is if we worked exclusively with Freesound samples.
It would be simple really.

For example, we could all bring 5 of our favorite samples into a new thread, discuss why we chose the samples, then individually pick through them to create a new composition.
The individual songs could then be uploaded (preferably short, 30s-1min pieces) and eventually, strung together in different ways by each of us.
That way, we'll all have collaborated and created something new!

Granted, there will need to be a new thread (I like "CoLab"...has a ring to it) with three main topics:

CoLab 1 - Found Sounds (wherein we can each gather and share our top 5 or so samples)

CoLab 2 - Previews (wherein we can share our initial, short entries)

CoLab 3 - The Masterpieces (wherein all the shared "Previews" entries will be mashed-up by each entrant and shared)

I know I'm getting really specific and I don't want to step on Alien toes , but this is just one way it could go.

Consider the possibility of creating a piece using shared samples and how they can be interpreted.
Also, it can go as deep as you want.
It would not be mandatory to complete a "Masterpiece" or even a "Preview";
it would be enough just to talk about sounds in "Found Sounds".

We should take advantage of the freedom of our technological age and create a masterpiece together!

Thanks for your consideration.

-

On another note:

One thing that I'm not a proponent of is swapping DAW session/application files.
That would introduce an unnecessary amount of stress to the process.
There are SO MANY variables between DAWs: plug-ins, formatting, app versions...the list goes on.
Plus, you'd have to open a new "Troubleshooting" thread which would undoubtedly fill with software hysteria;
a task better left to the people at Gearslutz.

Point is, if anyone likes the idea of swapping DAW files, go ahead, knock yourself out;
I, personally, will not accept any.
It would be much easier and more engaging to swap Freesound samples directly with the community.
And we need to get more people involved.
This thread seems to be a hidden gem that needs viewing;
there are people like us who love this stuff everywhere, so, tell your friends!

-

mojomills wrote:
I think the only way a collaborative project would work, is if we worked exclusively with Freesound samples.

I think that most definitely would be part of the collab dare.

It would be simple really.

For example, we could all bring 5 of our favorite samples into a new thread, discuss why we chose the samples, then individually pick through them to create a new composition.
The individual songs could then be uploaded (preferably short, 30s-1min pieces) and eventually, strung together in different ways by each of us.
That way, we'll all have collaborated and created something new!

I don't know why, but I can somehow remember this idea being proposed before (it may have been part of "Season 1" of dares, which dates WAY back). The thing with this would be that 1) people may not be all that enthusiastic to work with bigger files and try to mix them together as it just puts in more of an effort on "active listening" and also thinking about stringing a piece of about 30s to another of about 30s. This - just my opinion - may better allow for a "remixing (psst)" kind of a dare where you take the small individual compositions and do something with them - either layer them with your own sounds or simple mix them in a specific way (for which, mostly all the samples will have to be in the same key/bpm etc -- I say this because most of us may not be technically adept at handling the time-stretching/pitching process).

Granted, there will need to be a new thread (I like "CoLab"...has a ring to it) with three main topics:

CoLab 1 - Found Sounds (wherein we can each gather and share our top 5 or so samples)

CoLab 2 - Previews (wherein we can share our initial, short entries)

CoLab 3 - The Masterpieces (wherein all the shared "Previews" entries will be mashed-up by each entrant and shared)

Again, I'd point to my point above.

I know I'm getting really specific and I don't want to step on Alien toes , but this is just one way it could go.

Consider the possibility of creating a piece using shared samples and how they can be interpreted.
Also, it can go as deep as you want.
It would not be mandatory to complete a "Masterpiece" or even a "Preview";
it would be enough just to talk about sounds in "Found Sounds".

We should take advantage of the freedom of our technological age and create a masterpiece together!

I see how this dare would fit in a sort of a massively-multicomposer-online collaboration category, where there is no competition aspect, and we are all working towards one goal.

On another note:

One thing that I'm not a proponent of is swapping DAW session/application files.
That would introduce an unnecessary amount of stress to the process.
There are SO MANY variables between DAWs: plug-ins, formatting, app versions...the list goes on.
Plus, you'd have to open a new "Troubleshooting" thread which would undoubtedly fill with software hysteria; a task better left to the people at Gearslutz.

I think you quite nicely defined the major hurdle in handling a collab dare. The participants have to find a common format to work with, say exchange only wav files, no daw files, unless you share the same daw. As such, the pairing process for the dare will be crucial, because people with similar daws will more likely have a faster process of exchanging files. It may take a little time for everyone to understand other users' daw and format preferences, but with good communication (email, pm, fb, whatever), I think a dare with hurdles this big can actually be pulled off. In fact, I think, good communication and committing to a schedule are going to be key for every participant mostly for their own pair's sake.
Another key part would be division of labor. If three people are in on a collab (and I would personally think 2 participants in a group may be more than enough), one could handle the rhythm and the bass, the other the melody, and the third the mixing or any variation thereof.

Point is, if anyone likes the idea of swapping DAW files, go ahead, knock yourself out;
I, personally, will not accept any.
It would be much easier and more engaging to swap Freesound samples directly with the community.
And we need to get more people involved.
This thread seems to be a hidden gem that needs viewing;
there are people like us who love this stuff everywhere, so, tell your friends!
-

BINGO. This thread needs to be disseminated to the masses!

[EDIT]: And that, ladies and gentleman, marks my 150th post. I think I need to improve me sound-to-post ratio.

afleetingspeck:
The thing with this would be that 1) people may not be all that enthusiastic to work with bigger files and try to mix them together as it just puts in more of an effort on "active listening" and also thinking about stringing a piece of about 30s to another of about 30s. This - just my opinion - may better allow for a "remixing (psst)" kind of a dare where you take the small individual compositions and do something with them - either layer them with your own sounds or simple mix them in a specific way (for which, mostly all the samples will have to be in the same key/bpm etc -- I say this because most of us may not be technically adept at handling the time-stretching/pitching process).

I imagined it not so much as a requirement to be 30s-1min, but as a way to keep the entries shorter;
it can be all of 1 second and still be great!
The main thing is putting people's ideas together.

I do very much like the notion of a thread dedicated to remixes.
This collaboration experiment will be a social remix of sorts.

Should be fun!

I use Cubase 5, but its easy to export as Open Media Format (OMF) for use in many DAWs

I would work with you afleetingspeck, if you are game for that.

I'm game, playa!

It's on.

I'm hunting down some bone-chilling samples for Dare 16.
I'm thinking Carpenter.

This is gonna be a scream.

MuuuuaaaaaHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!

mojomills wrote:
It's on.

I'm hunting down some bone-chilling samples for Dare 16.
I'm thinking Carpenter.

This is gonna be a scream.

MuuuuaaaaaHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!

I'm not sure dare 16 is a collab dare, but wouldn't mind it being one.
MAUAHAHhahahAhahaHHAAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAHAHAHAHA!

afleetingspeck wrote:
I'm not sure dare 16 is a collab dare, but wouldn't mind it being one.
MAUAHAHhahahAhahaHHAAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAHAHAHAHA!

...to be continued...on the Discussion page!

GWAAAAAAAÅAĀÂHAHAAÄÂHHH!!!!!

Now now children. Lets calm down and think about this rationally

**smiles with evil intent**

Hi everyone,

I am really happy with this thread - great discussions. Many of these ideas are really useful already.

@mojomills
We already have some 'mini-dares' called Continuums where there is no real competition and these things are supposed to carry on forever. The idea is usually that you have to take the previous submitted sample, do something to it, then submit it as the next entry. These are usually non musical and the samples get uploaded right here at Freesound, all with the tag "Continuum-##".
This is, in a way, a basic collab...

My concept of collab is that people would pair up and we have 2 (could be 3 or more, but that gets too complicated...) people submitting a joint entry for a dare.
People might pair up on the basis that they are both using the same DAW: Reason or Ableton Live, etc. But actually, all the collabs I have done were with people using completely different DAWs. We simply exported the stuff as audio and each of us-reassembled it back at the other end. You don't even need to have the same plugins for that.
Then, if some adjusments need to be made is a matter of talking to the other person "hey great bassline, do you think you can automate the cutoff down and ressonance up on the last 2 bars to get it to really 'bite' ?"... and so on.
Doing these collabs was great fun.

My role here will never be to prescribe HOW you should collaborate. That will be up for each pair to decide. Howver, we can all discuss and share experiences in terms of what works and doesn't work, to make it easier for other people to have a go at collaborating too.

@All

For most dares you can enter with a collab already. I only specifically ask for no collabs when I want to use some complicated voting/scoring rules and that would make it just to complicated.
The problem with collabs is that they take longer. Especially if people are using different DAWs, never worked before and can't work on the piece every day.
So 3-4 weeks is becomes a difficult deadline for a collab.

This is why I think a collab Dare would work best with a 6-7 week deadline. We could run it in parallel with a normal dare and the Collab Dare would have its own theme, just like a normal Dare.
The main difference (in addition to the extended deadline) is that all entries would have to be collabs.

These are the things I have thought about myself. But please carry on the discussion. We will add to this, or change it, according to any good ideas that come along and seem to have wide acceptance.

As for the 'sucess' of the dares.
Right now we had 6 participants. (on a collab Dare, as I described above, that would mean 3 entries only)... so lets give this a bit more time to gather momentum.
I will make a post on the Freesound page about the Dares, which should help get a few more volunteers. As we build a bit more momentum on the normal Dares, then will be the time to bring in the Super-Dare that is a Collab but, judging by the interest so far, I can guarantee that we are going to have a few of those.

I'd be more than happy to take part in a collab dare! My DAW is Reason6 but I've also got Cubase. I think it would probably be simplest to jsut work using audio wavs.

Puniho wrote:
I'd be more than happy to take part in a collab dare! My DAW is Reason6 but I've also got Cubase. I think it would probably be simplest to jsut work using audio wavs.

I agree, exporting stems* to a zip file; back and fourth.

*In case anyone is unfamiliar with the term'stems', they are renders/exports of whole individual channels all starting at zero time or the start of the track, and ending wherever the audio/MIDI events end on the channel. This makes it easy to import all of the files starting at the same position, making up the track.

Alternatively:

WIKIPEDIA.ORG wrote:

Open Media Framework (OMF) or Open Media Framework Interchange (OMFI) is a platform-independent file format intended for transfer of digital media between different software applications.

The following applications are known to support OMF importing and/or exporting:

Adobe Audition CS5.5
Adobe Premiere CS5.5
Avid
SONAR
Cubase
Final Cut Pro 7
Fairlight
Logic Pro
Nuendo
Pro Tools
Digital Performer
SADiE
MAGIX Sequoia
Samplitude
Automatic Duck
REAPER 4

Avid systems generally store video in OMFI format, and audio in AIFF.

The OMFI is a common interchange framework developed in response to an industry-led standardisation effort (including Avid – a major digital video hardware/applications vendor)

Like QuickTime, the primary concern of the OMFI format is concerned with temporal representation of media (such as video and audio) and a track model is used.

The primary emphasis is video production and a number of additional features reflect this:

Source (analogue) material object represent videotape and film so that the origin of the data is readily identified. Final footage may resort to this original form so as to ensure highest possible quality.

Special track types store (SMPTE) time codes for segments of data.
Transitions and effects for overlapping and sequences of segments are predefined.
Motion Control – the ability to play one track at a speed which is a ratio of the speed of another track is supported.

The OMFI file format incorporates:

Header – includes indices for objects contained in file
Object dictionary – to enhance the OMFI class hierarchy in an application
Object data
Track data

A +1 bump for the thing that goes bump in the night.