Freesound Forums

Folks:

I just uploaded a sample pack called Ad Beds 1 (pending moderator approval) for anyone else here who does music for video, radio ads or TV. The samples are instrumental songs (most by a full band) formatted as Mp3s and are all approximately one minute long. They are in a variety of music styles from New Orleans piano boogie to an acoustic Mexican waltz to some very snappy jazz blues. The music is culled from some of my old albums and was edited down to present form for various commercials or video projects I've been involved with recently. [NOTE TO BRAM: I own all the rights to these samples]

For any of y'all who do commercial music work, these samples will give you a basic tool box for quick instrumental music beds of around a minute in length that will fit a large variety of needs for movie/video transitions, radio jingles, radio/TV station ID spots, show intro and outro, etc. If anyone is interested in the .wav files with better audio quality, contact me. Otherwise, the Mp3 should suffice for bed music.

Bon appetit, y'all,

Tio Ed
Austin, Texas

auch,

I really sound like I'm onto your tail or something, but... this is a severe problem.

Sampling+ doesn't allow this!! In exact words from the CC license:

"You may not use this work to advertise for or promote anything but the work you create from it."

However, I've been thinking we need to extend the licensing schemes in freesound a bit, and this might be the right time. I'll have a look next week ik I can add 'selective licencing' to the upload process. I.e. select the license yourself you want to release under! Creative Commons being "mix-and-match" type of licensing this shouldn't be a problem.

- Bram

I totally agree that it would be interesting to be able to select the license, if you do this, Bram, will all the actual uploaded samples be licensed by sampling+? If so, will the author be able to change the license ? Wouldn't that cause trouble, if we can go around changing the license...

...just wondering ^^

And hello, TexasMusicForge, Plaga here nice to meet you, cool samples and better will.

Take care u all.

well, authors are ablme to change the license anyway... What I was thinking is that we probably need an even LESS restrictive license than the Sampling+ license... Like the simple "by" license ( http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ ) which is even less restrictive than Sampling+. Also sampling+ has some annoying parts about "not being able to use the whole work" but only "parts of it", which applies directly to *music* but not to samples.

<pedantic mode>
By the way, TexasMusicForge, I'm going to be pedantic again, but listening to your tracks (you describe them as tracks anyway) I'm not sure they are suited for freesound anyway. As one of our basic rules is that you have to add samples, not tracks/songs (we've had a discussion about the thin line between these two once). Don't you agree your tracks fall more in the track/song category than the sample category?
</pedantic mode>

- Bram

Hey Bram:

You can close down my account immediately and remove everything I've posted and you won't see me or my music here again if I am violating some sort of rule(s). I'm a working music professional freely offering *my* work product for use by others. Frankly, if I was all that worried about someone improperly using my music, I wouldn't be posting the damn stuff here, would I? I've downloaded plenty of free programs and files over the years and just wanted to give back something of practical use back to the music community.

As for the pedantic question of "are they samples or songs?", I'm not contributing songs. The music in question was pulled *from* my songs but certainly none of them are songs in the way I understand the word. The tracks you question are inteded to be sliced up and used in different ways. Two of them even mention slicing them up for use as loops in the descriptions. I know what you are trying to do by keeping full songs off your servers (there are plenty of other sites for people to upload their compositions to for public feedback) and I agree with it, but I think you've missed the point of your own website in denying professionally-recorded sound samples freely offered for use by this community.

I was going to upload some SFX sounds (I also do sound design for theatre) and a package of bass riffs today, but think perhaps I should wait to see if my participation in this community is going to mean perpetually worrying about passing some sort of litmus test just to be able to contribute.

Respectfully yours,

Tio Ed

Hi there.

I would like to say something, i see this is kinda pissing you off a little bit Tio Ed. Freesound is quite new and because of it's newness it's facing this kinds of problems. At the beggining we had a certain CreativeCommons license wich we saw was not enough for the will of the people here, and we changed to the actual one.

The actual license has shown to be problematic with your will to upload samples for use on advertising, but i don't think this is a problem, the things the users want to do wich collides with the legal aspects of freesound but goes along the basis philosophy of the project, can only make it change to better. So in my oppinon, this situation will make the site change and adapt for better.

Another thing, about the beds for ads etc... As Bram said we are having some discussion about what can be consideered song and what can't. But the main point is what you mentioned and already understood, to not be another mp3 host site. Anyway, again, i think that your contribution is going to produce a little bit of arguing wich will make the project grow, and ( i hope ) accept this kind of samples. Since all samples are moderated, we should be able to make a difference between something like what you are posting, and a song uploaded for showing off purposes or to use this as a personal ftp server.

Please, don't get pissed at Bram, the guy is having a hard work making all this and i think he has been very respectful, polite and... well he was just asking what was your oppinion before doing anything wich is more than others will do.

I am sure we will work this out in a pleasant way, i'd love to see those theatre sfx ...hehe

Thanks for reading, man.
Take care and excuse my english.

Hello TMF,

TexasMusicForge
You can close down my account immediately and remove everything I've posted and you won't see me or my music here again if I am violating some sort of rule(s). I'm a working music professional freely offering *my* work product for use by others. Frankly, if I was all that worried about someone improperly using my music, I wouldn't be posting the damn stuff here, would I? I've downloaded plenty of free programs and files over the years and just wanted to give back something of practical use back to the music community.

The problem is that the current license we use doesn't allow work to be used in commercials! It's not because I dont respect your samples (not at all, they sound great), but legaly people CAN'T use them for commercials/adds. This is why I wanted to review the licensing system in order to allow your samples to be used...

TexasMusicForge
As for the pedantic question of "are they samples or songs?", I'm not contributing songs. The music in question was pulled *from* my songs but certainly none of them are songs in the way I understand the word. The tracks you question are inteded to be sliced up and used in different ways. Two of them even mention slicing them up for use as loops in the descriptions. I know what you are trying to do by keeping full songs off your servers (there are plenty of other sites for people to upload their compositions to for public feedback) and I agree with it, but I think you've missed the point of your own website in denying professionally-recorded sound samples freely offered for use by this community.

I wasn't implying the song/sample thing was going to get the samples removed. I was trying to open a discussion with you about the samples being more tracks (or not) in your opinion. I agree your samples could be cut up and used. The idea is that we try to minimalise samples that need extra processing to be used - I guess-. Have a look around the site, you will almost only see samples you can directly use in song production...
The song/sample thing has been a discussion item from the start and it's a difficult one we (moderators) aren't completely over yet!

TexasMusicForge
I was going to upload some SFX sounds (I also do sound design for theatre) and a package of bass riffs today, but think perhaps I should wait to see if my participation in this community is going to mean perpetually worrying about passing some sort of litmus test just to be able to contribute.

Those samples would be ***perfect*** for freesound in every possible way! As you can see on the site we NEVER question samples that apply all the rules (I've moderated some samples I personaly think are not so good, but that has never been a reason for me to say "not accepted"). In essence we're only trying to keep the site as close to what we envisioned at the start...

I'm sorry this makes you angry but try to see it from our side, it's very hard to "moderate" this site and keep it legaly and content-wise "ok".

- bram

Plag:

Thank you for responding and I am sorry if that came across as being mad, especially at the folks who administer this website. I am always amazed at folks like Bram who will take on a Hercules-sized labor for romance instead of finance. What I apparently could have expressed better is that files like the ad beds (should I have called them "soundscapes"?) are just the nuts and bolts of the end of the music business that I, and presumably others here, work with - the atomic structure of my little universe. For ambient or synth driven music creators, that atomic structure might be sounds or effects. For dance music creators, the nuts and bolts might be loops or samples like the excellent tenor sax samples on the site. I understood this to be a website dealing in the free exchange (with proper credit given) of various people's nuts and bolts, protons and electrons without having to pass a test of "is it fish or is it fowl?". It makes sense to draw the line at hosting songs for public feedback, but otherwise, I don't understand the artificial definitions being imposed on contributions and feel that, with all respect, y'all are missing the point.

I am in no way mad (after all, it isn't my website - you're certainly entitled to run it any way you see proper) and have no wish to be a burr under the saddle blanket of anyone here. You (and Bram too) certainly have an invitation to stop over for a cold beer and some Tex-Mex food anytime you're in the neighborhood.

I hope this clears things up, this is a great website with a real diversity of musicians offering their best work for use by others out of love for their art. I hope to be able to contribute here as a small way to pay back all the folks who created the great free plug ins I use to manipulate some of the superb free sounds I've discovered in the community.

By the way, your English is fine. I speak just enough Spanish to get myself into trouble, but not enough to get myself out of it...

Respectfully yours,

Tio Ed

Sorry, Bram, I wrote the reply as you were posting yours. You've got a first-hand invitation for that cold beer and enchiladas con salsa if you're in the area.

Tio Ed

gasp... cold beer and enchilada con salsa... for when a freesound meeting ?

Hey Tio Ed!

just a quick note that we over at the moderation forum are still talking about your specific case As it's something that previously has come up (song<->sample, licensing) we're trying to come up with a text that better describes what you can/can't, what we (don't) want etc... It's quite difficult actualy

cheers,

- Bram

Hola Bram:

My apologies for being the burr under the saddle blanket and, as always, thanks for your consideration.

Tio Ed

About advertisements and CC...

Even if it was permitted to use samples for adverts there is another problem, you need to give the credit to original author of the sample. So your adverts had to have list of names in the end of the advert.

Some less restrictive licence could be useful: Public domain for example?

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/

Public Domain...

My oppinion is that we should have various licenses to select from, public domain should be there

Although... Making licence selectable makes life hell for the end-users. Cause they have to check which sample they can use for their purpose and what they have to do to make the use legal. If the conditions vary from one sample to another it's going to be messy.

there can be, anyway, a little ammount of licenses, and search options to show only certain licenses. I don't think it would be that messy anyway.