Freesound Forums

I have just picked up on the Home page announcement - freesound is to receive 50,000 US denominated beer vouchers to help development.

First thoughts are that this gives the site some security and is therefore very very welcome. It seems the cash is to be used to develop the software and funcionality - great news. It also seems that there is to be an attempt to increase the number of files added. I wonder how this can be achieved. Any thoughts on this from members or Bram and colleagues?

I am no Luddite but one of the things that is great about freesound is the feeling that the community is very close. It is not always possible but I try to listen to or view all new added sounds and the variety and quality amazes me. Compare this to youtube or flickr [2750 photos added in the last minute] or myspace [75,000 videos added today] and you can see that it is impossible to keep tabs.

Also, how will the increase be managed ie the number of moderators required? Will moderation be impossible? After all it does not happen on other sites.

The money comes from Google Research Awards - I am sure most of us did not know of such a thing. Google does not appear to be a particularly altruistic ar charitable organisation so are there any strings attached?

Still all in all it is a major boost so I would like to thank those who won this for us.

Well done.

I see the problem that ERH proposed and how it might effect the site, but I think a possible remedy might be found when you look outside the box. With the already huge number of sounds being hosted here, it seems increasingly difficult to find just the right sound you're looking for. I myself have many times gone looking through thousands of samples looking for the right snare, or hundreds of pages looking for the right synth stab. If this funding boost will increase the number of sounds added to the site then maybe a new search/browsing method should be devised. This seems a bit ridiculous since already we can search for tabs, filenames, sample packs, etc, but perhaps even a small change like increasing the number of samples viewed in a single search page will make a noticeable difference. The point of Freesound is to have a good source of high quality audio at your fingertips, but when you're looking for hours to find one sample then things get a bit frustrating.
Perhaps a system of categories might aid in searches.
For example there would be some basic categories like "Drums" "Synths" "Outdoor Recordings" "Indoor Recordings" "Effects" or something of that sort. I understand that adding tabs to all of the sounds we upload is a good way of letting people find our sounds but sometimes the tabs aren't clearly defined. I've caught myself adding some rather bizarre tabs in the past like "spooky" or "ominous". Letting the user define their own tabs poses some problems since the category the sample falls in isn't clearly defined. Also adding sub categories along with the basic categories might narrow down the right sound even further.
Of course a modification like this poses its own problems, i.e. old samples. We'd each have to go back on our own samples and categorize them individually so that the new filters will be more efficient, but the benefit of doing so would be great. The easier it is to find the right sample the more people are satisfied, samples will get more ratings, comments, and downloads, and the site grows while still being under control.

This is just one way to attack the problem of searching, I'm sure there are dozens of other ways to go about this effectively.

"50,000 US denominated beer vouchers"

I couldn't stop laughing when you wrote that (no i'm not laughing at you at all buddy). How exactly does beer vouchers equal money? Aren't beer vouchers something you get at a festival for BEER drinkers? hahaa..oh come on e buddy ya know i'm just giving ya hard time.

Anyway. That's really cool that freesound looks to be getting some pesos (oh I mean dollars) from google. Nice to see them doing something good like that. Thanks for sharing this. Where did you get this news? got a link to share? I'd like to find out more.

LS
"50,000 US denominated beer vouchers"

I couldn't stop laughing when you wrote that (no i'm not laughing at you at all buddy). How exactly does beer vouchers equal money? Aren't beer vouchers something you get at a festival for BEER drinkers? hahaa..oh come on e buddy ya know i'm just giving ya hard time.

Anyway. That's really cool that freesound looks to be getting some pesos (oh I mean dollars) from google. Nice to see them doing something good like that. Thanks for sharing this. Where did you get this news? got a link to share? I'd like to find out more.

Freesound Homepage

Dec 15, 2007 :: Google Research Award for Freesound

The MTG has obtained a grant from the Google Research Awards program to support the Freesoound project. With the award of $50.000 US dollars the MTG will be able to make some major improvements to Freesound.

The MTG believes that the potential and future impact of Freesound is enormous and that it can become the reference site for sound sharing in the very near future. With this award we want to (1) increase the rate at which new sounds are being added, (2) improve the software so that the site can scale up properly, and (3) add functionality to further promote its use in research and creative activities worldwide. This award will allow to do all this while maintaining the current model of a free and collaborative site based on a creative commons license.

This is an award for the whole Freesound community, so congratulations to everyone!!!.

Well without the waveform I wouldn't be able to see exactly what I'd be hearing. It'd be like blindness. In order to find the right sound for my ears I have to see it and the waveform tells the whole story right there.
My point in the previous message was if we had a huge increase in sounds uploaded then maybe the best way to handle it is to improve on old ways of searching for sounds, making it easier to find one sample among hundreds of thousands like it.

This is off topic but very important historically and culturally - beer vouchers is an old Yorkshire expression for dosh/spondulix/cash/£/$/yen/zloty etc etc dating back to when joy of joys you used to get real MONEY ie notes and coins in a WAGE PACKET. Some of you young jockeys will never have this experience - peal a few off to bung the missus and straight down the battle cruiser to exchange remainder for beer! ah nostalgia! Lost days!

LS - I know your sense of humour - lovely!

FYI I had an email exchange with the folks at Pandora.com several months ago. They have some interesting ways of looking at/discovering music, which might apply to freesound sound clips too. Anyway I know they were taking a close look at freesound but I don't think anything came of it.

This reminded me of an old thread (2 yrs back) with a discussion on what should or not be properly termed 'field-recording' http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=126&start=0

I'm still at a loss with sound descriptions, there is sooo much subjetivity in it... Even worst, you may not have the vocabulary and language skill to describe sounds well (my case too often). Of course the 'thumbnail image' approach of FS is great, tell a lot about frequency, volume, duration... But what about 'timbre'? This is the main distinctive property of a any complez sound, after all.

My view is that attempts to classify sounds into discrete categories (as word tagging does) are of little use, even for native speakers of the language of choice, let alone speakers of other languages. An alternative could be perhaps to classify by comparison with reference sounds, you know what I mean. The way we do when trying to describe a favourite band or song to someone, LastFM style (?). I don't know if this problem will ever be solved.

Saludos
D

hey guys,

the money from google comes with no strings attached (hard to believe but it's true, just like the google summer of code projects), which is really awesome...

today I was in barcelona talking to Xavier Serra (boss of the mtg) to see how the money would be best spent...
we have some ideas, one includes a complete redesign and programming-from-zero to make freesound a lot more usable for the end-user.
we'll start putting together some ideas and bounce some of them around here for your votes/approval/feedback

about different ways of searching: one of our ideas is to create a public API for freesound so other people can invent new ways of displaying/browsing freesound. Just like flickr has a nice documented API, we should have one to promote external applications using freesound! That way everyone can create his/her preferred way of browsing and we all become happier

- bram

Here is the "Pandora" thread from last April: http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1796

Here is part of the conversation I had with Dina at Pandora.com:

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2007 11:22:53 AM
Subject: Re: Portland: Pandora needs your help!

Re: genome for freesound content - the original/main reason Freesound exists is to provide audio to exercise experimental algorithms for analyzing sound clips. I don't know the details, but Bram would. I would guess that there are people (especially Bram) using freesound sounds to help automate the identification of audio characteristics, not as complex as "genomes", but a similar idea.

I envision several Pandora-Freesound scenarios. I would love to see all of them:

1. A way to listen to new freesound sounds. Currently you have to click on each sound individually, which gets really old. Also when someone uploads a sample pack that I don't care to listen to, I would like to skip the sample pack (or sounds from a specific person).

2. A way to listen to field recordings. e.g. perhaps people could use the geotags that many field recordings have, to make various kinds of "audio tours" or stations. Or say I wanted to listen to a couple of hours of ambient field recordings while working (or sleeping, or whatever).

3. A way of finding new Freesounds that I might like (i.e. traditional Pandora functionality).

The main problem of course is the fact that no money is exchanged at freesound thus there is no revenue stream for Pandora to tap into. But perhaps some people would be willing to pay for the services I described above. If done well I'm sure the second one (field recordings) could be made into a desirable service that people would pay for. But then you could argue that freesound is no longer free... I don't know, more thought is needed I guess.

Regarding other ideas - like many people, I enjoy listening to certain types of music while working (I am a software engineer, currently doing software technical marketing). When I work at home, I listen to Pandora quite a bit. But at work, audio streaming/music downloading is not allowed due to bandwidth concerns. So at work I bring a USB drive which has a bunch of music on it (played with itunes). I may switch to an ipod soon though.

Anyway, something you might think about is a way for people to listen to Pandora while working, without consuming their employer's internet resources. Like a podcast or something. Yes I know there would be licensing issues etc. but I am pretty sure the following two facts will be true for a long time:

1. Many people listen to audio while working

2. Most employers restrict their employee's network usage to work activities only

Thanks for listening!

Dave

P.S. I think it is unlikely that I will be able to attend the meet-up. My evenings are nearly always consumed with family stuff.

----- Original Message ----
From: "@pandora.com" <@pandora.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2007 9:49:20 AM
Subject: Re: Portland: Pandora needs your help!

Hi Dave,

It's great to get your suggestions. I'll definitely check out the McMenamin's links you sent.

I'm also very glad you passed on the link to Freesound. I've been browsing through it for the past 15 minutes! It would be interesting to do a Pandora-like application with it, though I imagine it could be hard to create a genome for that sort of content. Nonetheless, I appreciate your idea and will pass it on. Thanks also for Bram's contact information.

With regard to your question about buying a song through our link to iTunes - yes! we do get a cut. Thanks for asking and keep on buying through us In fact, if you use the Amazon link on Pandora, any purchase you make through Amazon, be it music, furniture, food, whatever - we get a cut also.

I really hope you'll make it to the meet-up. I think you'll have so much to offer to the discussion. We'll send out an email with the details as soon as everything is figured out. Thanks again for writing.

All the best,
Dina

Bram if you are looking for specific ideas, I would love to participate. I love that kind of stuff (invention, patents, etc.)

Dave

Oh, this is wonderful news. One of the most difficult things for any organization of any size to handle is rapid and large growth. I would think that the most important goals for this site would be:

1) planning for and implementing bandwidth growth on a timely schedule.
2) planning for and implementing storage space growth on a timely schedule.

Everything else is unimportant if the site runs out of storage or bandwidth. People can't visit a site that can't serve web pages.

and

3) Ultimately, independence. Once Freesound becomes large enough, Freesound will have to separate from the University, I think, so #1 and #2 would have to be satisfied before becoming independent; that is why I see the need for careful planning. In my day job, I am responsible for the design and implementation of very high-bandwidth optical transport networks, and I can assure you that planning for extreme growth is not easy, and must be done with eyes open wide.

Good luck with the great challenges ahead. I am glad I am a small part of this.

Andrew

Thanks Bram for the update. The fact that the funds come without strings attached is even better news. The future looks bright, the future is freesound!

It looks as if Freesound is going to have a great future! I'm excited to see what lies ahead. I think it will be great for Freesound to become an independent entity with more resources for its users.

andrew1280

3) Once Freesound becomes large enough, Freesound will have to separate from the University, I think, ...

why?

I'd like to see freesound stay as it is and be safe in the knowledge that it can sustain for many years to come.

HAving said that, I dont know much about the technology and interactivity, so maybe a complete recode is a good use of funds? I'm just fearful of a scenario where freesound is rewritten and then runs out of steam.

Based on the existing fantastic work by Bram and the team, I'm sure you'll do the right thing. So long as FreeSound survives I"ll be happy.