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I have sampled an Islamic prayer (funeral prayer), specifically Takbir repeated 4 times.

I have no wish to cause offense to anyone's beliefs: is anyone here in a position to let me know if the recording and subsequent performance of this prayer out of context would do so?

Cheers!

Edit: I should mention that it is a tune about the death of schoolchildren in Kosovo after the bombardment.

whuffle
is anyone here in a position to let me know if the recording and subsequent performance of this prayer out of context would do so?

whuffle,

about a similar subject, someone told me some time ago: one just cannot control what other people will do in the future with a sample uploaded to a public site like FS, but if they do a 'bad' thing the responsability is by no means yours (note that the same applies if you share a sound, a drawing, photograph, or information of any kind on the internet). You could decide 1) upload and make clear that this particular sample has some restrictions (about the context in which it can be used) or 2) not to upload the sample.

I must add that this trend to creeping self-censorship all around us is bugging me. A lot.

Hope this helps

Cheers

oh I have no problem uploading it: if you choose to use it that's YOUR responsability.

I am more concerned that by playing it out in public as part of a tune, I might be doing a "bad thing" myself.
Basically, I don't want some outraged guy having a go at me for it everytime it is performed.

However, your post has made think "screw it" somewhat: I feel fine with using it as my intentions are perfectly benign.

For me it depends on what the rules of that culture say, and to what extend those rules also apply to outsiders. Perhaps write to a local moskee?

if someone thinks they can make a point by being offened they probably will.

on another tack, i studied cuban drumming some years ago at the same time i had a sampler. it was natural for me to have an active interest in sampling what i was listening to in relation to this. i wrote one particular tune which included a cuban chant to the deity Babalu Aye. I really liked it but one of my teachers told me that you dont want to be messsing with the Orishas because not only are they summnsed by the call but Babalu Aye at his worst can be associated with pestilence and death.

I still have the floppy but i have never played it since. my choice. its not about offending its about understanding the content and the greater context, not only the new juxtoposition which is the point of taking the sample, but the original, about which we may know precious little.

people dont like generalisations, stereotypes nor being used. so you cant really blame someone if they take offence or if they choose to make political capital from it. all you can do is moan about their intolerance etc whilst still not getting it.

if you want to find the answer to your question, upload it and wait a while.

on the other hand, i have sampled and published iranian women singing on a tune of mine. i havent a clue what they were singing about and had no backlash in the 16 years since!

times change tho

It has been my experience that there is no shame for a Muslim in having his prayers observed by non-adherents. And generally speaking I don't worry about posting materials in which I know the identity of the speaker but there is no way anyone else could possibly identify the source.

I say Put It Up There, but let everyone know what it is so they know what they are dealing with. Who knows, Gregorian Chant was very popular for awhile there and I don't remember anyone getting upset...

I used recordings of Islamic call to prayer for a piece of performance art about an Islamic person. The directors Islamic brother told him it would be using the sacred prayer in vein, and an insult. However, we went ahead and the Islamic audience members and guys down at the 'Prayer Shop' didn't question our use of it.

Faith is what you want it to be - I dont believe any sound should be beyond a persons grasp

This applies to posting sounds:

If all printers were determined not to print anything till they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little printed.

Benjamin Franklin

I think it's your responsability to find out what are the consequences of merging these to topics together in one song... Muslim calls and Kosovo. As an artist, you have to make sure that what is said by the prayer is what you think it is and that it's not insuating something you don't want.

It's not to have a sampple of a muslim prayer that is problematic but the use you make of it. I hope that I would not be held responsible for what you, as an artist do with my single sample. Did I have the autorisation to record that muslim call, should I have one? Then, if so, what recordings of human being can I do without having to have releases for everybody I record. This is a ethical problem and I would be curious to see what are the thoughts of other Freesounders on that. Personnaly, I think that as soon as a human produces a sound and shares it with others, including microphones, it's a public domain... Ouf... I am not sure anymore... Is it? I have a few recordings that are problematic...

thanks for rising this issue

martypinso said: As an artist, you have to make sure that what is said by the prayer is what you think it is and that it's not insuating something you don't want.

I think this is the main thing an artist should be concerned with. If you're crossing cultures - know what something means before you mix it.

This site has examples of how things can go wrong:

http://www.engrish.com/

whuffle
I have sampled an Islamic prayer (funeral prayer), specifically Takbir repeated 4 times.

wovv.. hock: it is "Tek-bir".. (Teknly-Birne) it is mean "God is one" in Türkish..ı have recorded a kind of "tekbir" for an Arabian films with 40 persons in my studio a few weeks before..ı sad a kind of because it has a lot of style..it was so enteresting and a dark atmospheric (mystic)sound.. :wink:

wnmp: That sounds great, do you think you could post your sample?

of course Halleck..ı will upload in a few days.. :wink: promise

ramjac
(...) a cuban chant to the deity Babalu Aye. I really liked it but one of my teachers told me that you dont want to be messsing with the Orishas because not only are they summnsed by the call but Babalu Aye at his worst can be associated with pestilence and death

Greetings Ramjac!

Googling away happily I stumbled upon this subject in general, and your posting in particular. Although what your teacher said makes SOME sense from a spiritual point of view, in real life there needs to be no fear of angry Orishas jumping on your back when singing the odd song. It would be a rare "ogberi" (non-initiate) who manages to invoke an Orisha that way! The necessary "ashe" (energy) is simply lacking.

Babalu Aye indeed is associated with pestilence and such. However, instead of bringing it, he more often prevents it!

Be well!

Jaap Verduijn, The Netherlands.