Freesound Forums

hey there everyone, i want to start freesounding soon...

wondering if anyone knows minidiscs well

im debating between a sony mz-30 and a newer model the mzr-700. i heard that the older ones have hotter signals in them is this true?

thanks

mrtunes
hey there everyone, i want to start freesounding soon...

wondering if anyone knows minidiscs well

im debating between a sony mz-30 and a newer model the mzr-700. i heard that the older ones have hotter signals in them is this true?

thanks

I can't speak to the MZ-30, but I have the MZR700. It works well, but my complaints about it are the following:

1) You can't do a file transfer to a computer despite the included USB port-- That's only an audio interface that lets you record in real time from your computer.

2) You can't adjust the input gain once you start recording.

3) You have to manually shut off the Automatic Gain Control every time you are about to record.

The battery life is pretty good. The transport is a bit noisey. The recordings I've made with it using an AT822 have been decent-- good enough to use in a lot of the TV work that I do. In terms of a hot signal, it all depends on what you are sending it.

-Richard

RHumphries
I can't speak to the MZ-30, but I have the MZR700. It works well, but my complaints about it are the following:

1) You can't do a file transfer to a computer despite the included USB port-- That's only an audio interface that lets you record in real time from your computer.

2) You can't adjust the input gain once you start recording.

3) You have to manually shut off the Automatic Gain Control every time you are about to record.

The battery life is pretty good. The transport is a bit noisey. The recordings I've made with it using an AT822 have been decent-- good enough to use in a lot of the TV work that I do. In terms of a hot signal, it all depends on what you are sending it.

wow. that sounds like a pretty annoying recorder. personally, i'll take a good tape recorder over a minidisc recorder anyday, but that opinion doesn't really help you (mrtunes) select a minidisc recorder . . . my main beef with the format is the data compression (i.e. audio loss) that enables so much audio to fit on such a little disc.

RHumphries

I can't speak to the MZ-30, but I have the MZR700. It works well, but my complaints about it are the following:

1) You can't do a file transfer to a computer despite the included USB port-- That's only an audio interface that lets you record in real time from your computer.

2) You can't adjust the input gain once you start recording.

3) You have to manually shut off the Automatic Gain Control every time you are about to record.

The battery life is pretty good. The transport is a bit noisey. The recordings I've made with it using an AT822 have been decent-- good enough to use in a lot of the TV work that I do. In terms of a hot signal, it all depends on what you are sending it.

-Richard

Thanks Richard.
-yes the transfer is my biggest beef with that model... it also doesnt have a dedicated line-out like the MZ-30 does which can lead to weak levels
-input gain while recording is another limitation of the mz-30 as well.

I am sending it Sound Professionals TB2 in-ear binaurals once i figure out what sensitivity to get(low or high). I havent bought anything yet. I also have a shure sm58

Trying to capture city ambiences, crowds, restaurants, a bit of nature.

Great to know that you have used it on TV work though.

nicStage
wow. that sounds like a pretty annoying recorder. personally, i'll take a good tape recorder over a minidisc recorder anyday, but that opinion doesn't really help you (mrtunes) select a minidisc recorder . . . my main beef with the format is the data compression (i.e. audio loss) that enables so much audio to fit on such a little disc.

Ah tape has that annoying noise floor though. Once you run it through noise reduction it will probably do the same as minidisc compression schemes.

What tape recorders do you recommend looking at? anything portable(i know a marantz tape deck is portable, but im talking pocket portable).

He was definitely helpful at giving me an opinion on that recorder, just not comparing the two. The bottom line of his statement is that it's been fine for him in the TV work which is really important for me.

PS my budget is extremely low. if it wasnt so low i would get a small sony DAT or something.

mrtunes

Ah tape has that annoying noise floor though. Once you run it through noise reduction it will probably do the same as minidisc compression schemes.

What tape recorders do you recommend looking at? anything portable(i know a marantz tape deck is portable, but im talking pocket portable).

He was definitely helpful at giving me an opinion on that recorder, just not comparing the two. The bottom line of his statement is that it's been fine for him in the TV work which is really important for me.

PS my budget is extremely low. if it wasnt so low i would get a small sony DAT or something.

but the noise floor of a tape recorder (pro field recorder) with good preamps is probably about the same as the typically crappy preamps on minidisc recorders. adding the data compression and the tradeoff is unbalanced. plus, data compression reduces the usable frequency range a lot too.

i shouldn't beat minidisc recorders up so much though, because i am not considering price when i do that. for how affordable minidisc recorders are, they are actually a great field recorder

as far as a pocket portable tape recorders go, there are none that i know of that can rival a minidisc recorder. the only "pro" quality tape recorders i have used were more like "back pack" portable. if you can find one / get the extra cash, i believe getting your hands on a DAT recorder would be a huge improvement over a minidisc recorder. sony makes (and made) some pocket portable DAT recorders that i have had experience with that never cease to amaze me as far as the audio quality goes. check ebay too.

p.s. when i said ". . . but that opinion doesn't really help you . . ." i was refering to what i said myself in the same post, not to the helpful advice that Richard had already given.

i just found this model
MZRH910S
it records PCM audio !
(but still no dedicated line-out is absurd to me)

nicStage

mrtunes

Ah tape has that annoying noise floor though. Once you run it through noise reduction it will probably do the same as minidisc compression schemes.
<snip>

PS my budget is extremely low. if it wasnt so low i would get a small sony DAT or something.

but the noise floor of a tape recorder (pro field recorder) with good preamps is probably about the same as the typically crappy preamps on minidisc recorders. adding the data compression and the tradeoff is unbalanced. plus, data compression reduces the usable frequency range a lot too.

i shouldn't beat minidisc recorders up so much though, because i am not considering price when i do that. for how affordable minidisc recorders are, they are actually a great field recorder

<snip>

Actually, I find the compression to be not-that-bad. Given the choice, I'd rather record with my Deva, but it's not something I can take with me everywhere. The minidisc does a pretty good job of recording the sounds I need as they happen.

If you look at the NYC subway file that I uploaded, that was done with the minidisc and the AT stereo mic-- which only cost me in the neighborhood of $500. Most of everything else I've uplaoded was recorded using my Deva/Sennheiser setup. If you compare some similar samples, you won't notice that much difference. I've never really noticed any artifacts from the data compression except when heavily modifying the sounds (pitch shift, etc). It's definitely not as quiet as my Deva setup, but it's quiet enough for most of what I do.

mrtunes
i just found this model
MZRH910S
it records PCM audio !
(but still no dedicated line-out is absurd to me)

From:

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=1001417

"Supports WMA3 and WAV Audio Formats with Conversion to ATRAC3® Format"

I wouldn't trust that. It probably means you can "convert" wav/wma TO atrac using the PC program it comes with.

- Bram

hi bram, nice to see an old kvr'r here(well it turns out you created this site right?)
not to mention i used to use your plugins a lot, i have to update my computer with your latest stuff soon

i did a bit of research on this and i think it actually does record in PCM wave, and can upload that USB with sonicstage.
but i will look further now that you bring this up. thanks.

I dont know what the S model is that we have in canada, but here is the one i want to buy:

http://www.minidisc-canada.com/shopexd.asp?id=516

"Record and Playback Uncompressed Linear PCM Audio using the the line input for recording"

EDIT: did you indeed create this site or what's the deal?

nicStage
p.s. when i said ". . . but that opinion doesn't really help you . . ." i was refering to what i said myself in the same post, not to the helpful advice that Richard had already given.

thanks for making me look like a dimwit :wink:

i'm sure richard is easy going though :lol:

mrtunes

nicStage
p.s. when i said ". . . but that opinion doesn't really help you . . ." i was refering to what i said myself in the same post, not to the helpful advice that Richard had already given.

thanks for making me look like a dimwit :wink:

i'm sure richard is easy going though :lol:

no way. you're not a dimwit at all . that MZRH910S recorder has this listed under the features:

"Record and Playback Uncompressed Linear PCM Audio using the the line input for recording"

which, to me, implies that it truely does have the ability to record in an uncompressed format (barring any false or misleading advertising). so if that is true, then they are still being misleading about how many hours of audio the thing can hold. they say 45 hours on a hi-md and 13 hours on a standard md. if the recording quality is cd quality (44.1 Khz / 16 bit; the lowest acceptable in my opinion) then a GB is only going to hold about an hour and a half. but that is still pretty awesome given the price tag. if you end up getting one, you should let us know how it works!

i wonder when they are going to make an md recorder that is geared solely toward the recording folks (like DAT recorders are)? the frustrating part about how much the md recorders cost is the fact that you end up paying for a bunch of "entertainment" type features that are useless and sometimes downright annoying if you're just trying to record audio.

nicStage
so if that is true, then they are still being misleading about how many hours of audio the thing can hold. they say 45 hours on a hi-md and 13 hours on a standard md. if the recording quality is cd quality (44.1 Khz / 16 bit; the lowest acceptable in my opinion) then a GB is only going to hold about an hour and a half. but that is still pretty awesome given the price tag. if you end up getting one, you should let us know how it works!

i wonder when they are going to make an md recorder that is geared solely toward the recording folks (like DAT recorders are)? the frustrating part about how much the md recorders cost is the fact that you end up paying for a bunch of "entertainment" type features that are useless and sometimes downright annoying if you're just trying to record audio.

i downloaded the manual and that is the best tool for figuring out a product(you cant hide limitations in a manual, but you can on your corporate website).
Linear PCM: 28 minutes on a standard 80 minute disc
1 hour and 34 minutes on a 1 Gb Hi-MD disc(i have no clue how much they cost)

In regards to why dont they make products geared towards us, beats the hell out of me man.
when they do make a voice recorder they say "oh we better not make it too high quality or else it will cost too much for our executive businessmen consumers to buy"
they make a normal one and they say "oh better not make it too high quality or else it will take away from our punk rock/rave/yuppie/home depot market that will never record anything but a dub from their cd master"

but the one i found, might be a compromise and im willing to invest in it.

M-Audio's "hush hush" recorder from music messe. how much do you think it will cost?
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2137

mrtunes
but the one i found, might be a compromise and im willing to invest in it.

M-Audio's "hush hush" recorder from music messe. how much do you think it will cost?
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2137

wow this thing looks cool. especially if it can record uncompressed. balanced inputs and 48v phantom power are almost impossible to find in a handheld. those flash media cards are getting a lot of capacity now too . . . i bet this thing will cost quite a bit ($300~$500 usd i'll guess), but m-audio does price their stuff pretty fairly. the delta-44 has been my workhorse soundcard forever and i love it.

nicStage

mrtunes
but the one i found, might be a compromise and im willing to invest in it.

M-Audio's "hush hush" recorder from music messe. how much do you think it will cost?
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2137

wow this thing looks cool. especially if it can record uncompressed. balanced inputs and 48v phantom power are almost impossible to find in a handheld. those flash media cards are getting a lot of capacity now too . . . i bet this thing will cost quite a bit ($300~$500 usd i'll guess), but m-audio does price their stuff pretty fairly. the delta-44 has been my workhorse soundcard forever and i love it.

yeah they are known for their budget products which is great. but this thing has great inputs on it so it probably will be around 500 like the edirol handheld

i have an audiophile 2496, i've had it for many years now and it is a superb soundcard.
i always regretted not getting a bigger delta card as i progressed in skill level.

mrtunes
hi bram, nice to see an old kvr'r here(well it turns out you created this site right?) EDIT: did you indeed create this site or what's the deal?

Yah, I created this one...

About the minidisk: I had written a very critical review right here, but after looking at minidisk.org it looks like Sony might have learnt something from their previous mistakes:
=> http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html
(minidisk.org is SPLENDID!)

Looks like this Hi-MD thing might be cool after all!

Ony one (minor?) problem: you're bound to use SonicStage to transfer files between your MD and the computer because there's no digital out.

- bram

thanks for that bram
unfortunately there are almost no reviews on this unit i am looking at because it's so new.
but the specs seem to speak for themselves i think.

what's wrong with the sonicstage software? is the problem this is the ONLY means of transfer? or is it something about the software itself?

mrtunes
is the problem this is the ONLY means of transfer?

exactly.

when you buy an external hard-drive you want to be able to plug it in and drag'n'drop from explorer/finder, not use a locked-in program. What if Sony decides no longer to update the program? What if you want to use... linux?

- Bram

Bram

mrtunes
is the problem this is the ONLY means of transfer?

exactly.

when you buy an external hard-drive you want to be able to plug it in and drag'n'drop from explorer/finder, not use a locked-in program. What if Sony decides no longer to update the program? What if you want to use... linux?

- Bram

damn you're so right about that. i thought it would be a good means of transfer between my school and home. we use macs at school mainly and of course you cant just install programs on the network at your own will. but my pro tools sessions are now going way about 1 gig now so it's not like i could use this effectively anyway.

but aside from school, that could get REALLY annoying eventually. i guess in a pinch emergency the headphone out acts as a line-out when the bass is turned off.

http://www.iriver.com/html/product/prpa_product.asp?pidx=42

plus: (cool looking) hard-drive recorder with support (play-record) for just about everything (ogg, flac, wav, ...), which you can mount as external harddrives and open source firmware.

minus: more expensive, no 'pro' (XLR/...) input-output, no 'pro' AD DA.

there are a lot of professional sollutions out there as well of course, but pro costs.

- bram