Freesound Forums

I'm in the process of uploading fragments of music I've made to freesound for anyone to remix as they wish, and I have been pondering a legal question regarding loops that make use of samples from "commercial" sample libraries.

So far I've only uploaded sounds that I've made from scratch, or by using other freesounds, but I have a couple of loops that I've created using a sample library - the BBC Symphony Orchestra Discover from Spitfire Audio to be specific - that is not freely licensed (although you can get it for free, and I can warmly recommend it, btw!), and I was wondering if it's OK to upload these.

I'm thinking of a couple of different scenarios, actually:

1. Uploading unedited loops of a single instrument playing a melody. This seems like it might not fly, as someone could take that melody and chop it up to end up with essentially a (small) subset of the original sample library. However, this could still be considered a composition. And what if I want to write a full composition for one instrument and share that for free (obviously not on freesound), seems weird that that would not be okay then, and it's even more notes that could be chopped up. Or if some part of my composition has just one instrument playing at a time.

2. Uploading unedited loops of multiple instruments playing at the same time time. This seems more okay, as you couldn't (easily at least) separate the different instruments from each other. But uploading the single-instrument-loops would be much nicer for anyone who might want to use them in their own composition.

3. Uploading loops of one or more instruments with a lot of processing (e.g. heavy distortion, huge reverb etc.). I don't see how there would be any problems with this, as the original sounds are basically unrecognizable. However, I want to be sure before uploading anything.

The Spitfire end user license agreement (https://www.spitfireaudio.com/info/eula/) states that "...use the purchased Sound File(s) only within your own newly-created sound recording(s) and/or performances in a manner that renders the Sound File(s) substantially dissimilar to the original sound of the Sound File in each case. The Products (and all recordings and/or compositions incorporated therein) are the property of Spitfire Audio and are licensed to you only for use as part of a live or recorded musical performance. You may not use these sounds for any commercial or non-commercial purpose except where you have combined them with other sounds within one or more musical composition(s) and/or recording(s). This license expressly forbids resale or other distribution of the Products or their derivatives, either as they exist in the library, reformatted for use in another sampler, or mixed, combined, filtered, re-synthesised or otherwise edited, for use as sounds, multi-sounds, samples, multi-samples, sound sets, programmes or patches in a sampler, microchip, computer or any sample playback device"

So on the other hand, use of the "Sound Files" should be okay "in a manner that renders them substantially dissimilar to the original sound of the sound file" (I think cases 3 at least, and maybe case 2, should fall under this?), but resale or other distribution of the "Products or their derivatives" for "use in another sampler, or mixed, combined, filtered, re-synthesised or otherwise edited, for use as sounds, multi-sounds, samples, multi-samples, sound sets, programmes or patches in a sampler, microchip, computer or any sample playback device" is "expressly forbidden."

Any help in interpreting this particular license agreement would be greatly appreciated, but also discussion about the general guidelines for these kinds of situations might be helpful for other people as well.

Be carefull and read this:
https://freesound.org/help/faq/#licenses

To be sure just upload only own creations.
regards

I think you basically answered your own question.
When I am moderating sounds I go through this question alot, as in alot of people do use sounds from soundtrap, soundsnap, splice, ect... sound sources and I have to do the research as to whether they are okay to have on Freesound.

So to sort of answer your question, yes and no to scenarios 2 & 3.
You just have to know their terms and conditions and if they allow it; if then they allow it so long as the sound isn't a standalone of their original sounds directly uploaded to the site, you should be okay.

Sounds that are originally licensed for non distribution but that then are heavily modified/layered with other sounds are usually okay as they dignify a user's original composition.
But Spitfires description is quite confusing in scenario 3

"You may not use these sounds for any commercial or non-commercial purpose except where you have combined them with other sounds within one or more musical composition(s) and/or recording(s)."

--So they are saying they allow the use of their sounds for projects but so long as its modified from the original.

This license expressly forbids resale or other distribution of the Products or their derivatives, either as they exist in the library, reformatted for use in another sampler, or mixed, combined, filtered, re-synthesised or otherwise edited, for use as sounds, multi-sounds, samples, multi-samples, sound sets, programmes or patches in a sampler, microchip, computer or any sample playback device".

--And here it sounds like they don't allow it even if its a modified sound and then to which uploaded to Freesound. Very confusing, but I recommend you contact them for elaboration and who knows, they may be cool with it.
This is often what I have to do when moderating as I get confused alot by their terms and conditions.

I really wish they would use dumb language like.

Sound original, don't share as is.
Sound modified, okay to share blah blah blah.
Feels like I am trying to decipher the Rosetta stone with these guys sometimes.

Best regards

J.P

Freesound mod

Erokia wrote:

Feels like I am trying to decipher the Rosetta stone with these guys sometimes.

Haha, yes! Glad I'm not the only one confused with their wording. But I think you are right: I'll just have to contact Spitfire directly and ask what they mean.

Btw: If I get the go-ahead from Spitfire (or anyone else in a similar situation from whatever sound source), should I cite that in the sound description, or is there a better way to let your end know, so that you'll be saved the work of doing it yourself?

IMHO, the wording is clear, and it kinda recalls what the retired Sampling+ license aimed for.
If you look at samples like ingredients, you're allowed to make food and share it (a finished product e.g. a whole song), but you can't make "advanced ingredients" for others to make food.

Your loops would be advanced ingredients, not finished products, and as such much more on the no side, even if the original samples can't be extracted from your loops.

With DAWs on our computers, now we can easily put N copies of a loop on an audio track, but in the analog world we'd load it in a sampler... see their point?

Update: I contacted Spitfire to ask about this, and was told that uploading loops is fine as long as "you're not playing a single note, where someone may take this and use it to create a new sample library." Here's an article that explains their policy in layman's terms: https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007271778-Are-Spitfire-Audio-sample-libraries-royalty-free-and-can-I-use-them-on-commercial-recordings-

So pretty much as I expected: scenarios 2 and 3 should be fine, scenario 1 not. Ofc, this is specific to Spitfire.

Thanks for the helpful replies!

Glad to hear it got sorted out!