Freesound Forums

Hi All,
About a year ago I decided to try a dual system (separate sound and video recording gear) for some of the projects I've been doing. I apoliges for what looks like a rambling post, but in asking this question, I wanted to provide a little background on what I am doing and where I wanted to go.. I hope this allows for a more educated answer.

I wanted to work on documentaries that were more specific to music. As I had moved to HDV recording gear, I think its worth mentioning that HDV only records in 12 bit audio, as opposed to 16 bit audio for DV, as opposed to 24 bit audio for DVDs.. The point I am trying to make is that HDV audio sucks (a technical term), and I decided to try to augment this by dual systems recording.

Anyway, I bought a Tascam HD-P2, an FP-24 (Shure 2 channel field mixer), and an assortment of relatively reasonable quality mics. As someone who relied on a single shotgun mic before, this system was way more cumbersome than I had expected, but after a few abject failures and disasters, I've gotten better results than I could ever have expected. I still confess to be pretty ignorant to really understanding how to place mics and other factors to getting really great recording, but think I am on the right path. The last thing I shot was a capoeira roda (a musical thing), where I hung a pair of Electro Voice RE-510 mics over in what I believe is called a coincident pair. I was really happy with the results, though ocassionally one of the singers voices would distort to a small extent (I don't believe the VU meters ever showed I was anywhere near clipping).

I used to be a hardware engineer, and had done some repair of professional mixing boards, etc.. so I knew a little more about audio than your average man on the street.. but not much. I picked up a copy of Jay Roses book "Recording for DV".. which I *highly* recommend if you want to improve audio quality for video, one thing he really didn't cover much about mic placement for various types of events you may encounter. I have since read a couple of 1-2 page live recording FAQs on the web where I first learned of coincident pairs, etc.. but I am still an ignoramus on understanding how and whys of properly using the equipment I have (or understanding that I reall need something else).

So, right now I am looking for a good book(s), magazines, or whatever to give me a better overview on how setup to record some of the events I go too. I don't want to read a thesis on physics, so I am looking for something that could be semi-technical, but not too difficult to understand.

I also was curious what mics many of you used for a high quality all around microphone.. I bought the EV 510s strictly off of comparing specifications to other mics, I thought these looked like reasonable mics to record live music with.. but obviously, I only compared the specs to a few other mics in the same price range.

So.. any advise with any of these things; (1) books (2) mics (3) If you were recording a couple of musicians live.. where would you place the mics if you only had 2. (4) Field recording in general.. I really want to record some noises for a few of the intros or button activations on my DVDs I produce.

Thanks!

Brian

Okay.. too much text... simple questions.

(1) Any good books on field recording, or just the art of what mics to use and were to put them?

I'll be extactic if someone has an opinion on this..

Thanks.

Brian

brfindla
Okay.. too much text... simple questions.

(1) Any good books on field recording, or just the art of what mics to use and were to put them?

I'll be extactic if someone has an opinion on this..

Thanks.

Brian

Good question!

I'll get back to you on your book, I might have a suggestion... but I don't remember it, it's an old book I looked at 10 years ago... it was old then... but the basic recording techniques did not change much since... before the surround era.... which is fairly new...
My first impression on your mic setup with 2 track would be a standard MS, Mide-Side recording using a cardioid and a figure eight. I's precice, it has a variable stereo image, a good mono and no phasing problem... There are different categories of these mics, I have a good feeling with the Schoeps setup, they sound great. They cost a bit... If you want something cheaper you have few other possibilities... They are great with music, sound effects, dialog... pretty much everything... and you always have a good mono with your (M) track and you get your stereo with the (S), you keep them not decoded, and you decode it stereo using a plug in or decode it yourself with a console. I also have tried binorauls, they are very realistic and great for stereo capture of concert or music... but you have to be careful with sound for picture.

Thanks about the mics..and now to follow that up with another really ignorant question, and thats about figure-8 mics. I know very little to nothing about them. Most of my investment at this point has been into Lavs, shotgun mics, and more generic types of audio mics such as a pair of EV510. I'm stongly beginning to think I was on the wrong track when I buying this stuff, as much of the documentary work I am working on, I am seeking to provide as much of a "you are there" experience, which it seems like the figure-8 provides.

I realize there is no one perfect mic and I don't know if the antidotal evidence I am seeing is misleading me, but would you say an MS configuration is one of the most commonly used? I listened to the test recording (near the bottom of the article)

http://www.mediumrecords.com/random/?page_id=24

and was blown away by the sound seperation, etc. It sounded almost exactly the sort of thing I was looking for to incorporate into some of the documentarys I'm doing that are sound intensive. As I wander thought many of the posts and recordings that I find are really of high quality and imaginative, I find this reference coming up often as the recording method.
To keep the questions simple (wander as you will).. Please feel free to answer only partially, I'm just trying to get a sense of direction and this seems like the best place to get it..
(1) Good book on field recording
(2) What method and mics do you rely on for the majority of your field recording and why?

Thanks!

brfindla
Thanks about the mics..and now to follow that up with another really ignorant question, and thats about figure-8 mics. I know very little to nothing about them. Most of my investment at this point has been into Lavs, shotgun mics, and more generic types of audio mics such as a pair of EV510. I'm stongly beginning to think I was on the wrong track when I buying this stuff, as much of the documentary work I am working on, I am seeking to provide as much of a "you are there" experience, which it seems like the figure-8 provides.

I realize there is no one perfect mic and I don't know if the antidotal evidence I am seeing is misleading me, but would you say an MS configuration is one of the most commonly used? I listened to the test recording (near the bottom of the article)

http://www.mediumrecords.com/random/?page_id=24

and was blown away by the sound seperation, etc. It sounded almost exactly the sort of thing I was looking for to incorporate into some of the documentarys I'm doing that are sound intensive. As I wander thought many of the posts and recordings that I find are really of high quality and imaginative, I find this reference coming up often as the recording method.
To keep the questions simple (wander as you will).. Please feel free to answer only partially, I'm just trying to get a sense of direction and this seems like the best place to get it..
(1) Good book on field recording
(2) What method and mics do you rely on for the majority of your field recording and why?

Thanks!

well, as you mentionned previously, you wanted something that was realistic, easy setup, flexible for many types of recordings and I think MS is a great solution for you. Of course there are other types of setup that work as well but I think MS is pretty much the most interesting one because it is very flexible and it sounds great! The problem with MS is that it is not everybody that knows how to deal with MS and they oftenly consider it as a pain in the _beep_ in post. You just need to know how to handle it yourself and you will be fine.

The thing with MS is that by combining the work of a cardiod or a hyper cardiod (you can have both, it's a choice you have to make), and a figure 8 that captures both sides on the same channel positive and negative. By combining (M+S), you get the left channel and by inverting the S (M+(-S)), you get the right channel. And controlling the difference between the S and M, you get a difference in the stereo image...

For sound effects, you have a front miking with the M and off cam micking with the S.

For music it's sounds according to what you ear

For dialog, it's fine (that is where you would like to have a hypercardiod)

You need to place the microphone where you feel your head ears it the best... ouf!