Freesound Forums

hi, i've done a search for this topic here, but couldn't find what i was really after, sorry if i'm posting a repeat....

is it better to mix at 0db or at -3db,and why?

thanks in advance..

That"s depends on the Bit-Depth resolution you use, if you work on 8bit resolution (very old) you will see the difference,
but with 16bit it"s better to be between 0 to -6dB,
and with 32bit it"s better between 0dB to -24dB I think....

Because more the level and the Bit-Depth are higher, more quality of the sound you keep, that"s mathematic....

hi, thanks pcm...

i'm working with 32bit here......
so i guess my final output should be around 0 db's then without having it distorted?

I don"t know what program you use,
but just make sure that the sum of your sounds is equal or below 0dB to have no distortions...

no matter what you're recording you should always leave some headroom, most engineers suggest between 6dB and 18dB. The reason is that you will rarely be using these sounds on their own, so as soon as you want to mix it with other sounds you will run into trouble. This is especially true with music. But I suppose if you're recording samples just to play on their own, go ahead and record with hot levels.

thanks for the replies....

pcm, i'm tracking in fl producer and using audacity to do final mixes.......

it may not be the best solution, but $$$ for recording software isn't available right now, and i'm jut doing this to learn things abit better anyway.....

tweetdj, most of the things i'm doing is music, (specificaly 80's synthpop, soundscape and experimental) but i am integrating some samples into it also...

HardPCM
but just make sure that the sum of your sounds is equal or below 0dB to have no distortions...

I get what you mean, but how do you work it out? are there programs that'll do it for me?

I use everything but often Above audition for mixing :twisted: ...

if I have two sounds to mix I reduce the channels to -6dB,
if I have three sounds to mix I reduce the channels to -9.6dB,
if I have four sounds to mix I reduce the channels to -12dB...

But for me, the most simple is to put Dynamic Graphic Compression on 32bit mixing output channel
and reduce each channel while there is saturation :mrgreen: ...

to know exactly what level I need I use the formula:

Level(dB) = 20 * log( 1 / n ), where "n" is the number of channels
or
Level(dB) = 20 * ln( 1 / n ) / ln( 10 ), where "n" is the number of channels

wow, sorry about my earlier post, i didn't read your OP very carefully. I got it in my head that you were asking about recording levels, not mixing levels, but in your OP you said mixing. Sorry about that. Ignore my earlier post.

Anyway, yes mixing to 0dB is not a bad idea if you want to take the time to do it. You don't have to worry about it unless you plan on never having your music mastered. The goal in mixing is to make it sound good, not to make it sound loud. However, putting any plugins on a master channel is absolutely an amateur move. It may help you in the short run but chances are it is coloring your sound, whether it's actively compressing or not. The less plugins you are using the better. If you have a master fader, you probably have a master meter, too. Just make sure that doesn't clip and you're golden. This is what mixing is all about. And actually, if you've recorded at nominal levels (-18dB to -6dB as I mentioned before) you should be able to put things loudest in the mix (kick, snare, bass, etc.) at 0dB on your channel and still have headroom to add everything else.

And as for the mathematical solution to mixing above, that is rubbish man. We're talking about mixing music. You can't have a mathematical solution for what sounds good and what pleases your ear. Just doesn't work that way.

Oh and Streety, you can get the Inspector which gives you spectral analysis, master meters and tells you how much headroom you have. Just make sure it's not on your master fader all the time, it could colour your sound.

Yes it"s true for live mixing it"s better to be between -3dB and -6dB,
but I think for Final Songs mixing or Samples making it"s better to be normalized at 0dB...

But there is exceptions, for instance we will not normalize to 0dB an FootStep hock: ...

thanks for the 'inspector' tweet, but as you say i just look at my master sound out and make sure its not clipping!

HardPCM
Yes it"s true for live mixing it"s better to be between -3dB and -6dB,
but I think for Final Songs mixing or Samples making it"s better to be normalized at 0dB...

But there is exceptions, for instance we will not normalize to 0dB an FootStep hock: ...

I think we have a problem with misnomers here. For live mixing you mean using a mixing board to mix a live band on a stage, in front of people? In that case, you do the same thing, bring the gain of each track up to peaking between -18dB and -12dB and bring your heaviest channels (kick, snare, bass, etc) up to 0dB (on the channel fader, not on your meters). Same as in the recording studio, you let your amps give you volume, not your mix.

Secondly, "Final Songs mixing" does not exist! What you are talking about is called mastering. It is a very seperate process from mixing, and you would do well to seperate the two. You can't combine them. It doesn't work. Your final mix should sound good at any volume, and can be any volume you want, though it should be fairly high if your recorded sources were at nominal levels (-18dB to -6dB on peaks), and if there's lots of tracks, as is normal in music. After you have a mix that sounds perfect, then you master it, using multiband compression, EQ, whatever you need to do to give it that extra volume and punch, or whatever it is you want it to sound like. Most pro mastering is done by guys who have at least 10+ years in the field, have extremely well listened ears, flat monitors, and an extremely flat sounding room. And there's a reason for that: it's not an easy task. Anyway, enough of the lecture.

Oh, and samples mixing, please don't normalize your samples, if you want someone to be able to use them easily! Samples are still recorded sources, and have to be at nominal levels for them to be useful. If you normalize a sample, you take away all headroom that was there, and, though it might sound great to you by itself, when you attempt to mix it with other samples, the attenuation it requires will make it sound less than great. Headroom is very important. Can't be stressed enough!

Streety, for mixing, yeah I agree, but if I'm doing a little DIY mastering, I find it really useful for determining headroom and low frequencies that my speakers have trouble reproducing (I mean really low, 10-50 Hz).

Thank for the correction, What you said is totally true,
And I hate to say Mastering because I"m not a Professional :evil:
Sorry for the misnomers :? ...

But about samples in my mind, that because I prefer to normalise to 0dB when I have 8Bit-Depth (in the past),
But for higher Bit-Depth like you said it"s better to keep the original level recorded to make easy mixing...

HardPCM
Thank for the correction, What you said is totally true,
And I hate to say Mastering because I"m not a Professional :evil:
Sorry for the misnomers :? ...

No worries, just wanted to clear it up! I'd hate people reading this thread later on to misunderstand what was being said...

Mastering isn't a scary thing, but it is damn hard to do right... unfortunately, it's also an irreplaceable step in the process, as it often gives mixes that extra something to sound better than the next song.

thank you again for replies.....
i'm kind of a noob at this recording stuff, so i'm not really sure about what's being said here...lol

i tend to flatten many tracks though because my processor is pushing it's limits when i have a few tracks in a composition, and starts to freeze up on me.....

and i do add effects and stuff on my tracks because i don't really know how to seperate them in fruity loops as extra channels or whatever.....

i don't record using any external soundcards or instruments, because i don't have them, i run everything through a usb keyboard controller....

but i will definately take your advice about mixing levels....