Freesound Forums

Hiyall.

I'm planning to get a FOSTEX FR-2 LE (or possibly ZOOM H-4) as a field recorder, and I'm trying to choose a very versatile stereo microphone setup for it.

My sound sources and recording conditions would be very diverse:
- close quiet (and fairly loud) sounds (both indoors and outdoors - some with important stereo information)
- quiet/loud sounds from medium/far distance (in and out)
- ambiences and wide sounds (in and out)

So basically the whole range of sounds there is. Since I'm relatively tight on cash, I have to pick up one stereo mic to start with, that does a good job in all of these cases.

My choices so far are:

EDIROL CS-50 stereo shotgun microphone
(AUDIO TECHNICA BP 4029 Stereo Shotgun looks yummy but is over my price range, unless it's incredibly good)

AUDIO TECHNICA AT822
AUDIO TECHNICA AT825
BEYERDYNAMIC MCE 72
RODE NT4
(I'll post some links in my next post, as they aren't allowed in the first post.)

Some Pair of Soundman binaurals for ambience + mono spot mic or
Zoom H4 own pair for ambience + mono spot mic

Any other alternatives I should think of?

Now, AT822, NT4 and such are apparently very good mics and would handle close sound sources and ambiences well, but is it possible to get further away, quietish sounds with them? Like, say, birdcalls etc?

In this respect the Edirol CS-50 looks like the most appealing choice - the cheapest stereo shotgun available. However, I haven't been able to find a single review or user comment or anything about it in the internet. Anyone have any info on it whatsoever?

Anyway, any advices or general comments about this greatly appreciated!

And here are a few links:

Zoom H4 Thomann, Zoom H4 manufacturer;
Fostex FR-2 LE Thomann, Fostex FR-2 LE manufacturer;

Edirol CS-50 Thomann, Edirol CS-50 manufacturer;
Audio Technica BP4029 Thomann, Audio Technica BP4029 manufacturer;
Audio Technica AT822 Thomann, Audio Technica AT822 manufacturer
Rode NT4 Thomann, Rode NT4 manufacturer;
Beyerdynamic MCE 72 Thomann, Beyerdynamic MCE 72 datasheet.

I have done a lot of recording for film & tv with a Schoeps MS-stereo pair.
MS-stereo allows you to change the 'wideness' of the recording later in the studio. Since you always have one mic facing forward (in case of a specific thing you're recording), you can choose to have it fully mono by only using the M(id) mic. Adding the S(ide) mic in the mix will drift the stereo field from centre slowly out to stereo. And even lowering the M signal in the mix makes the stereo wider than the speaker setup.

I have an Audio-Technica AT825 which I have gotten excellent results from. I have placed it in a stairwell to record a school bell. I have put it near an upright piano's sound board, and inside a concert piano's lid, to get some stereo separation between bass and treble notes. I have placed it between two guitarists to separate the guitars. I have placed it in the middle of a small orchestra to pick up the softer instruments for the audience. Before I had a vocal microphone I used it to record narration. It is intended as a choir microphone, but I've never needed to record a choir, so I don't know how well it works in that application!

visa tapani
Hiyall.

I'm planning to get a FOSTEX FR-2 LE (or possibly ZOOM H-4) as a field recorder, and I'm trying to choose a very versatile stereo microphone setup for it.

My sound sources and recording conditions would be very diverse:
- close quiet (and fairly loud) sounds (both indoors and outdoors - some with important stereo information)
- quiet/loud sounds from medium/far distance (in and out)
- ambiences and wide sounds (in and out)

...

Now, AT822, NT4 and such are apparently very good mics and would handle close sound sources and ambiences well, but is it possible to get further away, quietish sounds with them? Like, say, birdcalls etc?

I have an NT4, if you search my uploads you can hear lots of ambiances made with it. The AT822 is also a similarly good mic (although I would be getting the 825 instead). The nice thing about these single-point stereo mics is setup convenience. This can't be underestimated in the field, many times I have wanted to kiss my NT4 for its ease of use and great sound

However these are single-point stereo mics and you are looking for flexibility? Then you probably should go with a stereo pair, there are two options here...cardioid and omni.

I would recommend any quietude recordist who wants flexibility to get a pair of very low self-noise AT3032 (omnis) and experiment with placement, baffling etc.

Have a read of the information on this page...

http://www.godsownclay.com/Equipment/Microphones/at3032p.1.html

And listen to the 3032 samples on this page...

http://www.mactrix.com.au/recording/environmental_recordings

...but be warned with the extra flexibility comes complexity or decision making, setup, wind-protection etc etc...

digifish

Where high gain can be required for field recording, the H-4 records audible clicks that have been discussed a variety of places on the net. There are some workarounds. I like using a preamp which gives me knob control over recording gain and also gives me very high gain when i need it without the recording pulses. Others have fabricated an external battery pack to provide additional amps. Bottom line, if you think you will have circumstances with the H4 that requires turning the recording gain up, research the H-4 more thoroughly than that suggested by manufacturer's specs.

In other respects, i think the H4 is an excellent value.

I appreciate many of the links above. They have led to some very good information.

Thanks for all the comments!

nemoDaedalus
I have done a lot of recording for film & tv with a Schoeps MS-stereo pair.
MS-stereo allows you to change the 'wideness' of the recording later in the studio. Since you always have one mic facing forward (in case of a specific thing you're recording), you can choose to have it fully mono by only using the M(id) mic. Adding the S(ide) mic in the mix will drift the stereo field from centre slowly out to stereo. And even lowering the M signal in the mix makes the stereo wider than the speaker setup.

Yeah, I too was thinking that MS would be very handy indeed - that's why the Audio Technica BP4029 would be such a practical mic! However, I haven't found any cheap figure-8 capsules yet, the Schoeps ones are over my budget. If I could find a good cheap bang-for-the-buck figure-8 capsule I could combine it with the mono mic of my choice ang get a nice custom with that. Any recommendations for such a capsule?

Also, with MS, do you get any true left-right separation? For example, if a bird approaches your setup from the left, flies past the mics to the right and disappears to the right - would you hear this in the recording?

Those of you with either AT822, 825 or Rode NT4 - they appear to be great for ambiences, but is it really possible to zoom in on a sound with them? Also, is there any other difference between the 822 and 825 than that 825 can run also on phantom power?

Which one would you recommend between AT825 and Rode NT4?

As for getting a proper stereo pair... It does seem a little bit too much hassle right now, as building a wind shield for them seems like a lot of trouble. Also, I need a solution I can carry easily with one hand, for walking around and zooming in on sounds and a stereopair might get a little heavy... Maybe a little bit later though!

I only just now noticed that the Rode NT4 and AT822/825 can be run with battery power. So for these mics preamps wouldn't even be necessary. I wonder if it would be good choice to pick up a Marantz PMD 620 insted of a Zoom H4 to use with one of these mics? At least I've heard that it's a better unit than H4, and the lack of preamps wouldn't be a problem with those mics...

visa tapani

...

Also, with MS, do you get any true left-right separation? For example, if a bird approaches your setup from the left, flies past the mics to the right and disappears to the right - would you hear this in the recording?
...

Visa tapani,

most or all of my field recordings during the last year were made in MS stereo, check for example http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=54746

So yes, you get left-right separation. And yes, you can mount the two mics very close together into a very portable pack. Bad news is... price

Saludos

D.

visa tapani

Those of you with either AT822, 825 or Rode NT4 - they appear to be great for ambiances, but is it really possible to zoom in on a sound with them? Also, is there any other difference between the 822 and 825 than that 825 can run also on phantom power?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the AT822, but I can confirm that the AT825 requires phantom power on both the left and right microphone cables.

if i remember right, the 822 uses 3.5 mm mini plugs as opposed to xlr connectors.

I've recorded a variety of circumstances from distant ambiances, to church pipe organs from a hundred feet to instrumentals and vocals from a few feet, to close-ups such as a music box with my at825.

I'm not dissuading you from considering other worthy or better options. For me, the AT825 has worked very well.

"Zoom in"

By their design any standard stereo mic won't be all that good at rejecting off-axis sounds. If you want to obtain extreme rejection then you probably should be looking at a shotgun mic. as the forward facing element in a MS-Stereo rig.

Honestly, however, the best way of rejecting off-axis noises is simply to get closer to the subject, and that is what makes capturing the perfect field-recording more interesting

digifish

Thanks for all the suggestions.

If I can't find a cheap figure-8 for the side component in a MS-pair I'll probably go for either the NT4 or AT825 - I'm sure they'll both be good choices. Also since they can both be powered by battery power, I'll also save purchasing the more expensive Fostex FR-2 LE recorder (with good preamps) for later and get a cheaper and more compact unit now, such as the Zoom H4 or Marantz PMD 620. Later I can then expand my rig with a MS-pair with a shotgun in the middle and some kind of stereo pair of omnis or cardioids...

sanus_excipio
if i remember right, the 822 uses 3.5 mm mini plugs as opposed to xlr connectors.

I've recorded a variety of circumstances from distant ambiances, to church pipe organs from a hundred feet to instrumentals and vocals from a few feet, to close-ups such as a music box with my at825.

I'm not dissuading you from considering other worthy or better options. For me, the AT825 has worked very well.

I own the at822.

The only difference between the at822 and the at825 is the phantom power options (there could be slight differences in other areas as well but i doubt its very much). the 825 can use phantom power OR battery power whereas the 822 only uses a double A battery ONLY. Both can terminate to left and right XLR or to a single stereo 1/8" or to RCA. the cable is totally separate from the mic. I like my 822 but if I were needed to record field/nature, it would sound better with a pre-amp in front of it since that is what pre-amps do. Take a listen to different 822/825 recordings as well as 3032 recordings. For $225, the 822 is a great buy for a single point stereo mic.