Freesound Forums
field recorder, money not that much an issue, size yes
Started October 28th, 2008 · 15 replies · Latest reply by nicStage 16 years ago
Hello Guys,
Time for me to start daydreaming about a new recorder, my microtrack now lasts about 15 minutes on a full battery charge...
And it's firmware is really, really broken in various ways.
On the 9th of November I'm going for 3 weeks to Costa Rica and I want to take some recording material.
This will be a relatively lo-fi trip, with backpacks mostly, so I need something rugged and small.
I was thinking Sony PCM-D50... I'm guessing there are no real contenders right?
Perhaps + the sony windscreen?
Does anyone have a test of the recorder + windscreen?
- Bram
Hi Bram,
Well loving mine. Had it a few weeks got it from B+H (came with the windscreen which is essential in my opinion). haven't got many files here at work, but could post up something simple. what would be good for you for a test. have a few controlled condition stuff and some ambiant stuff (train stations etc). haven't totally put it through its paces yet.
Keith
If money is no object and weight and size are, you may want to check into the Nagra ARES-MII.
Smaller and lighter than the Sony (and about twice the price). Also about half the power
consumption (runs for about 12 hours on two AA NiMHs). And can record MP3 in addition
to WAV.
I have two, and carry one with me almost everywhere.
Downside vs. the Sony is that you're limited to 2GB of non-removable memory.
I concur on the Nagra. Very good preamp, loooaaads of gain without getting too noisy. LS-10 is very sturdy and good quality as well.
If I were goind I'd complement the kit with a handheld mic such as the Beyerdynamic MCE 82.
My two cents worth. (looking forward to Costa Rica uploads here 
--Peter
Mab - that price difference is quite hefty!
Is the quality of the built in mics/preamps/build quality that much better than the sony?
How is the wind sensitivity of the ARES-MII - Sony seems very bad in that respect?
And the microphones - the ARES site has very little information about the type of microphone - but it seems it's very targeted towards interviewing people?
(by the way - Ares sell these "ultra high end stereo" systems which are invariably overpriced.... )
Sony has vendor lock-in with their overpriced memory sticks which is HORRIBLE.
I think 2GB is enough, at 48khz, 24bit that's 2 hours 4 minutes ( hurray for nickStage's http://www.sounddevices.com/calculator/ )...
- Bram
Bram,
I like small portables, and have an ARES-M, two ARES-MII's, a Sony D50, and a Sony D1 in my arsenal.
In practice, if I'm not going to take something big, heavy and elaborate (in my case, that's usually a sound devices 744 and a mid-side pair in a bilmp), I usually end up with the ARES-MII. I generally keep one in my backpack when I'm not planning to record anything, just in case, which I'd probably not be willing to do with the bigger (and more conspicuous) Sony.
The ARES-MII preamp is definitely quieter than the D50, comparable to the D1, in fact. So it's a winner there.
The "green band" clip on mic (the higher quality XY mic, which is the one bundled with the US version of the ARES-MII) is pretty good quality, but it's a bit self-noisy compared with the preamp itself. Comparable to a Rode NT4, but with a bit more self-noise. So it's quite good for music and louder ambiance, but not really good enough for very quiet nature recording. There's a Rycote windjammer available for it, which is kind of mandatory for outdoor recording.
The original ARES-M (1GB model) had some annoying ergonomic problems, most of which were fixed with the M-II model. The main remaining deficiencies of the Nagra vs. the Sony from my perspective:
- Best recording mode is 16bit/48KHz PCM. That said, 16/48 is about the limit for a handheld small mic setup anyway, so this doesn't bother me as much as one might think.
- No screw mount for a tripod or stand. This is the most annoying problem in my usage; I found a small clamp that does the job of fitting it to a mini-tripod, but I wish they had supplied a screw mount.
- Display is hard to read in direct sunlight.
- No removable memory.
- No input limiter (just an overly aggressive AGC or manual)
- Digital level control buttons (the analog knobs on the Sony are a definite winner here, although neither the Sony nor the Nagra can be adjusted live without risking some handling noise).
- The Sony seems sturdier, but I've not dropped either. (The Sony D1 is the definite winner here, but at twice the price of the Nagra and larger than even the D50).
On the upside:
- The input presets (for gain calibration) are a really, really nice timesaver.
- The meter ballistics are exactly what I'm used to
- More recording modes than the Sony (MP3 and mono, in particular).
- Half the size and weight
- The clip on mics can be removed if you're going to use an external mic anyway.
The Nagra also has couple of features I don't use (a rudimentary editor, a built in dictation microphone, an AGC that's OK for interviews but not much else, etc).
If you can live with the limitations and the higher price, the Nagra is better for what it tries to be -- a genuinely portable good recorder that you can take anywhere - than
the Sony. But the Sony has some nice features as well, and may be a better compromise for some applications.
-matt
Bram, check out
http://www.nagraaudio.com/doc_en/NagraNews_26.pdf
for some more info on the Nagra M microphones.
--Peter
hey guys,
I went for the sony with the fluffy hat.
( brace yourselves... )
<rant + flamewar>
I see those high-end CD players Nagra makes and their "tube vinyl pre-amplifiers" and I get a bit nauseous.
"hi quality power outlet cords to make your music sound even better for only $199"
"platinum covered audio connectors with quadruple shielded cables for only $99/foot"
"oh no, of course I have two completely separate amps for the left and right channel. think of the crosstalk!!"
"my hifi costs 25000 euro - of course I don't have a cd player 44,1/16 bit, ha - vinyl all the way!"
I'm really, really allergic to that kind of thing.
Of course nothing says that their "pro" gear falls in this category, but I can't help thinking they might overcharge...
</rant + flamewar>
Hope I didn't offend anyone with this rather long rant.....
Their pro audio gear does *look* very pro, and the clip-on mics do look nice, but right now I can't convince myself it's worth the extra 400 euros.
There is one thing that thoroughly bothers me about the Sony though, now that I've bought it: I can't find any software updates anywhere..... 
For example, I read in many places that it does not have a mono mode, something that could have been added very easily in a firmware update.
- Bram, donning his flame repellent suit
Bram,
Me too on the nausea-inducing effect of the "high end" gear. I don't know what Nagra was thinking in polluting their product line with that kind of nonsense.
As best as I can tell, Nagra now has three essentially unrelated product lines: satellite TV encoders, broadcast/film/recording/law enforcement surveillance audio, and "high end" consumer audio.
The first category is essentially a consulting business aimed a a few DBS clients, and isn't really advertised to end users.
The second category has a long and very well respected history dating back to the heyday of analog tape, that their current digital products seem to live up to quite well. I got my hands on a new Nagra VI in the lab, and it really is impressive (but money is no object) stuff. And I really like my ARES-MII for handheld portable use, although the Sony does give it a run for the money.
But that "high end" stuff, yuck. I'm sure they're nice looking CD players, but please.
-matt
Well, I have an Ares M and PII+ and they are great machines but I'm not religious about them Good luck with the D50. --Peter
BramA lot of the price in Nagra stuff is in the name, and it is true that they have a whole line of products that market toward people who believe they can hear the difference between "burnt in" speaker cables (And other silliness like that). However, their pro recording gear is very intelligently designed and quality built (Although the silliness can sometimes carry over into the "pro" line too. Example: the 4.2). From what I've heard from people using the Nagra V it is a beautiful sounding and extremely reliable field recorder. I would love to get my hands on a Nagra LB to play with...<rant + flamewar>
I see those high-end CD players Nagra makes and their "tube vinyl pre-amplifiers" and I get a bit nauseous."hi quality power outlet cords to make your music sound even better for only $199"
"platinum covered audio connectors with quadruple shielded cables for only $99/foot"
"oh no, of course I have two completely separate amps for the left and right channel. think of the crosstalk!!"
"my hifi costs 25000 euro - of course I don't have a cd player 44,1/16 bit, ha - vinyl all the way!"I'm really, really allergic to that kind of thing.
Of course nothing says that their "pro" gear falls in this category, but I can't help thinking they might overcharge...
</rant + flamewar>