Freesound Forums

Hello. I purchased the MZ-RH10 a little while ago but have been reluctant to install the software bundled with it due to widespread rumours concerning Sony's rootkit installer. my question is for those who use this particular minidisc recorder, is it possible to upload recordings into my pc without installing the bundled software? also i learned only after purchasing the MZ-RH10 that one is only allowed to upload a recording once to protect copywritten material, i find this insulting as well as inconvenient as i only want to use the minidisc to record everday sounds or my own music, should i expect the MZ-RH10 to delete my recordings once i've uploaded them or is it possible for me to leave the recorded material on the discs as a personal library and back up?

thanks.

I believe the most updated version of SonicStage got rid of this limitation, and regardless there was a hack written before Sony removed it. Even if the files were locked on the MD you'd be able to get them off by plugging an analog cable out of the MD and recording it in realtime onto your DAW.

I believe that's the only way to get audio off without the installing the software, but honestly I don't understand why you wont suck it up and install SonicStage, that's half the functionality of Hi-MD. I really don't care about Rootkit issues I just want to get my sounds onto the computer and start editing and I sure as heck don't want to lose sound quality from plugging 1/8" cables back and forth compared to direct usb transfer.

Hello MrTunes, thanks for responding.

i wasn't aware of any "hacks" in getting around the upload limitations but i will look for info on it, as for "sucking it up" and installing sonicstage... i have no problem with anyone who doesn't mind backdoor software programs being installed on their pc with or without prior knowledge but from my perspective i wouldn't like it very much if i bought a house and found out 6 months later in the news that the realtor who sold me the house had installed hidden cameras and secret doors to gain entry into my home for any reason. regardless of any excuses that realtor may use to justify his or her actions i would feel violated. i would wonder if that realtor had gone through my belongings, i would wonder if after "rooting" through my belonging whether or not they shared any personal info they uncovered i.e. credit cards, bank statements, personal letters, intimate photo's, work projects etc etc. i also wouldn't like it if that realtor took the liberty of dictating who is allowed to enter or leave my home and how many times they are allowed to do so. this analogy can clearly be applied to Sony's "Rootkit", they install a backdoor program which monitors your computers use of "copywritten" material and while that may be fine for those who don't rip cd's for any reason including making a personal mix to bring to a party, to backup a favourite recording in case the cd becomes scratched with overuse or even for file swapping, no one knows what else Sony is doing with the information they collect via their "Rootkit" and the fact that they didn't just come right out and warn consumers in no uncertain terms that this program will install itself is extremely unsettling if not out right criminal and for me to wilfully install Sonicstage knowing what to expect makes about as much sense as it would for me to invite a known thief to watch my home while i'm away. i have this insane notion that when i purchase something it in fact belongs to me.

again i'm perfectly ok with your being comfortable with that Rootkit installed on your pc but i don't think any amount of "sucking up" will convince me to bother with it, thanks anyway.

if anyone else has an alternative solution i'd like to hear it.

thanks, have a good one.

Right well you have the right to your opinion, you are a little paranoid for your own good though. You should watch out- Sony might've planted midgets throughout your house too! Careful what you say - they might be recording you with Minidisc technology, and then uploading it back to Sony with Rootkit!

As of Feb 1st Sonicstage is actually at V3.4 now!

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14137

and for more information about people's opinions on this Rootkit issue i suggest going over to that forum, I personally am not up to snuff on everyone's opinions but I do know that those folks are minidisc GODs over there.

There is a significant difference between worrying that midgets have secretly invaded my home and knowing that Sony has developed a backdoor program that installs itself on the PC's of those who've purchased their products. i haven't read any news reports of people suing Sony over the illegal installation of midgets but i have read that Sony are being sued for secretly installing a program that collects information on home computers as well as programming that software to modify the hard drive of those computers making it impossible for it to be removed once discovered and in many cases rendering a PC useless in attempting to remove said program. if i'm paranoid it's because i've read the facts (which you obviously haven't) regarding this highly illegal action and choose not to be complacent when a major corporation breaks one law to enforce another. if this was about an acne ridden teen hacking into computers and not a major corporation i'm certain very few would question or ridicule my interest in finding another way of using a piece of equipment i paid for that won't end up damaging my pc. a rational thinking person should feel insulted if not concerned about a corporation who will unlawfully infringe on your privacy as well as possibly corrupt the hard drive of your $1,400 computer that has thousands of dollars worth of software installed after you just spent $300 purchasing their own product.

In any case i will thank you for pointing me in the direction of another forum.

take it easy.

I took three minutes to research this and I came up with the conclusion that I had suspected all along. There is no connection between SonicStage and the Rootkit Scandel of a few months ago. The Rootkit comes from SonyBMG and comes about when you try to copy one of those CDs onto your computer.

http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-7595-0.html?forumID=71&threadID=131677&messageID=1572999

Personally I didn't care about this Rootkit scandel cause I don't buy mainstream music AT ALL. The one time I bought a mainstream release this year was Disney's Chronicles of Narnia soundtrack and I didn't rip that onto my computer.

Hi, i don't listen or purchase mainstream music either, certainly nothing released by sony so that's not a worry. i checked out that CNET article you linked me to, it was dated 11/30/2005. here is a link to a computer help forum dated 12/02/2005 http://forums.tomcoyote.org/index.php?s=2cb766e4bda6c7a640dd849c879e01d2&showtopic=52627&pid=252625&st=0&#entry252625

perhaps you're right as well as the person on CNET and there is no link between sonicstage and that rootkit scandal but here is someone looking for assistance in deleting a "rootkit" virus and if you check his HiJack This log he also has "Sonicstage" installed on his pc. coincidence? possibly but i'd rather not chance it.

anyway i think i found a solution to the sonicstage problem. anyone else who is paranoid or overly cautious should check out the Xitel MD-Port I/O. http://futurelooks.com/display.php?i=203&p=1 i haven't purchased it yet but it appears to be what i've been looking for.

mr tunes thanks for your feedback.

[rand mode ON]

PoisedToGlitch
Hi, i don't listen or purchase mainstream music either, certainly nothing released by sony so that's not a worry. i checked out that CNET article you linked me to, it was dated 11/30/2005. here is a link to a computer help forum dated 12/02/2005 http://forums.tomcoyote.org/index.php?s=2cb766e4bda6c7a640dd849c879e01d2&showtopic=52627&pid=252625&st=0&#entry252625

perhaps you're right as well as the person on CNET and there is no link between sonicstage and that rootkit scandal but here is someone looking for assistance in deleting a "rootkit" virus and if you check his HiJack This log he also has "Sonicstage" installed on his pc. coincidence? possibly but i'd rather not chance it.

I'm sorry to say you are rather mistaken. There's no link what so ever betwen sonicstage and the rootkit. Mrtunes does seem to have the right ideas. Perhaps you should read http://www.slashdot.org more (News for Nerds Stuff that Matters) Using hijackthis logs you could prove existance of a link between any two software errors. For example:
http://pcpitstop.ibforums.com/lofiversion/index.php/%5C%22http://edits.mywebsearch.com/toolbaredits/t106319.html
could you you to conclude that people with Norton Antivirus are hit by the rootkit!

aaaanyway!

PoisedToGlitch
anyway i think i found a solution to the sonicstage problem. anyone else who is paranoid or overly cautious should check out the Xitel MD-Port I/O. http://futurelooks.com/display.php?i=203&p=1 i haven't purchased it yet but it appears to be what i've been looking for.

I'm sorry to say that this is not the ultimate sollution either. See, what you're doing is this:

Minidisk (ATRAC compression) => Conver to linear digital stream => output digital, optical out => little magic silver box => USB cable => PC.

That little silver box is nothing but a USB soundcard with a TOSlink (optical input/output). The company's website is full of confusing details such as this to misguide the user into buying it:

"The MD-Port I/O provides amazing sound quality through its advanced external design. All of its high-grade components have been carefully selected to provide an exceptionally pure and dynamic signal. That’s why it sounds so good!"

As the little silver box only does digital to digital conversion, of COURSE there is no loss But, the most important thing is: this little silver box only lets you record at 1X speed. The whole idea about using sonicstage is that you can grab stuff from/to your minidisk at faster than realtime speed!

With the new HiMD's + new sonicstange you can record (and now download/upload) any for of uncompressed audio. I.e. digitally or analog recorded streams from and to your MD. Which is basically what 1000000 other manufacturers have allowed you to do with mp3 players for a LONG time now, but it's neat to see Sony FINALLY got the idea to implement something users really wanted

[rant mode OFF]

- bram

Oh dear, hadn't seen this. It's even worse than I thought:

"The MD-Port I/O’s fully customized input and output have been designed to work flawlessly with all portable MiniDisc recorders. It’s optical output provides a pure digital pathway for recording from PC to MiniDisc, while it’s analog input allows you to record from the headphone output on your MiniDisc back into your computer in high fidelity."

I.e. when UPLOADING sounds to your minidisk they use digital. (i.e. PC ====> Minidisk)
When UPLOADING they use the analog output (headphones output!!) of the minidisk (i.e. Minidisk ====> PC)

So, no go!

- bram

yeah i suppose you're both right, it's totally absurd of me to make a connection between Sonic Stage and this "Rootkit" fiasco. just because Sony took deliberate steps to slip a trojan in with thier music cd's doesn't mean they'd use the same form of deception with say any software they'd market. yeah, yeah i guess i'm being silly, i trust Sony now, they're good guys i'm sure this was all just blown waaaaay out of proportion, i'll join the club and go install Sonic Stage now. thanks for setting me straight guys. i'm goin to check my closet for midgets now.

take it easy.

well in all fairness to you, you did have a right to be suspicious. doing manipulative things like these hurts a company's image and i'm sure Sony has taken a hit on their entire product line after this scandel came out. the sad part is this is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to companies doing malicious things and as well collecting information. welcome to a new era!

of course, and to be honest I don't even have an MD!!

i'm the first to be really paranoid about what I install - being a developer - but I know sonicstage has been around for a very long time and no-one (not even freaky paranoid developer types like me) has reported any strangeness with it (except for it not doing what everyone wanted )...

Sorry PoisedToGlitch, I guess I was a bit.. strong in my opinion.

It's just that companies selling little magic boxes like the one you told us about gets me petty angry. Not to say that sony should be forgiven, as the great Mr T would say "Damn you fools!".

- bram

If you care about the whole rootkit issue; well, the windows malware remover (one of the better ms products) is now supposed to remove it. Anyway, afaik, sonicstage doesn't install it. It would make little sense, since the rootkit was intended to block cd playback and ripping, while sonicstage implements its own DRM, which doesn't need a rootkit. You can't play back an md without an md player anyway, and sonic stage is the only software that can play back atrac tracks.