Freesound Forums

Hello all,

I've been having some thoughts about experimenting with a mid-side recording setup with my Zoom H4n. I know I can use 2 mics in the 2 available XLR inputs for the 'side' and the H4n's built-in mics as the 'mid' (or indeed 1 XLR input as the 'mid' and the built-in mics as the 'side'), and I will be trying that out.

My question is about another thought I had - I did a search here and couldn't find any previous discussion on this. Can 2 battery powered condenser mics be connected to 1 XLR input using something like a 'Y' connector? I appreciate that doing so is likely to result in some reduction of the input signal levels, but are there any other reasons why this might be a bad idea? Can it be done with additional adapters/transformers/whatever?

I ask because I couldn't find any XLR 'Y' connectors available for sale, so I thought there might be a reason for this. Has anybody any experience of recording with 2 battery powered condenser mics plugged into 1 XLR input?

I really appreciate your knowledgeable freesoundy advice on this.

I think the biggest problem with using two mics in this way is how closely matched they are. As far as cables I don't know if they can ship to Ireland, but Redco will build anything you want.

Corsica_S
I think the biggest problem with using two mics in this way is how closely matched they are. As far as cables I don't know if they can ship to Ireland, but Redco will build anything you want.

I think that mic-matching is a mic issue rather than a 2-into-1 connector issue, but I do agree that recording with two mics works best if they are well matched.

Thank you very much for the link.

Microscopia
lots of useful stuff!

Gosh, thank you, that was incredibly helpful and useful information! I am going to be coming back to that a lot as I experiment.

Having said that, I see from your explanation that I wasn't sufficiently clear about my aims.

My Zoom H4n has 2 XLR inputs. I have been considering ways to construct a M/S setup using only those 2 inputs with 3 external mics. My question was about the S-S part of the setup, using 1 XLR input for 2 side mics. My idea was this:

1. M - 1 cardioid battery powered condenser mic plugged into one XLR input and recording to a mono file
2. S-S - 2 same-model battery powered omni or cardioid condenser mics (which I don't have yet but I will), plugged into the other XLR input and recording to another mono file
3. Mix them together afterwards (with help from your excellent guide).

From what you described, I think this should yield a useful result in principle. I was wondering if there were likely to be any voltage issues or anything else which would interfere with getting a good mono S-S recording result from 2 mics.

I hope that was clearer? Many thanks again for your extremely useful and detailed explanation, I really, really appreciate it.

It would be useless using two omni mics to emulate a figure-8. They're not directional, so you can't have one 'lobe' pointing left and the other pointing right. Also, as the right one needs to be inverted, you would technically end up with nearly no sound at all and useless in emulated MS setting.

You can't just plug in two mics in one input. You would have to use a simple mixer adding the two (and inverting one, which with XLR is fairly easy) properly. You'll have to do some searches, but I'm sure you can find a schematic for this purpose somewhere online. It should be something like this: [link]. If you're good with electronics and have the components, you can try to make it yourself, otherwise, go find someone who can do it for you
But just soldering two contacts together won't give you a proper mix.

Microscopia
But you were/are sufficiently clear and unfortunately still mistaken - since what you describe is not mid side stereo recording - [...] You will never get MSS format with side signals formed by 2-cardioids which produce positive signal values, as the MSS format requires side signal values which are positive from the left and negative from the right. [...] It would be pointless therefore trying to use my MSS encoding notes for anything other than a true figure 8 pattern microphone, for recording the side-channels. [...]

It's nice to hear of your experiments - best of luck!

Oh, I see now, I hadn't appreciated the importance of the positive-negative figure-8 pattern thingy! You're right, my thinking was flawed because I wasn't accounting for that. I also see now that I might have benefitted from studying the MSS specs more closely before asking my questions. Oh well.

On the up side, your explanation is still extremely interesting and helpful for mixing in general, and I'm so glad you took the time to post it here. If I could offer you a cookie, I'd, well, offer you a cookie.

nemoDaedalus
You can't just plug in two mics in one input. You would have to use a simple mixer adding the two (and inverting one, which with XLR is fairly easy) properly. You'll have to do some searches, but I'm sure you can find a schematic for this purpose somewhere online. It should be something like this: [link]. If you're good with electronics and have the components, you can try to make it yourself, otherwise, go find someone who can do it for you
But just soldering two contacts together won't give you a proper mix.

Right, that is perfect, just the information I was asking about, thank you very much! I'm really glad to know there's a lot more information that I need to take into account before proceeding further.

I'm also really glad to know that I can save my energy because I better not proceed further til I know a bunch more. So I'll carry on as I am with what I've got and get back to this sometime in future.

You guys rock.